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Discussion Starter #1
It will be interesting to see what this 300BC on ebay will go for. At what point is a car a resurrection instead of the restoration?

That "vintage patina" interior will show well at the "2013 Concourse De Alligance".
 

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I think that body isn't in a poor condition. The problem is where do you find the rest of the car, especially the engine....and if $20K aren't enough for the wreck, the restore 'll be over $200K at the end of the day!
 

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Discussion Starter #4 (Edited)
That ad was on Craiglist a couple of weeks ago. It will be interesting to see how much a Siata 300 BC chassis number is worth now.
The seller is obviously not a person in the know. I spoke with them in December of 2010 and they had no idea what they had. Their plan was to put the body on a Miata chassis. I connected them with a real expert in hopes that they would work with them to put the car into the hands of someone who would take proper care of it. A few years have past and now I guess they see dollar signs. With luck they will find a good sale price and the new owner will have the resources to put this car back to the way that it should be.

It will have some more attention now that it's on Bring a Trailer.
Four Probable VINs: 1952 Siata 300BC Project

Mark
 

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Except there's no chassis number, which will make it even more interesting...
That's why it was underlined:laugh:

However, the lack of the chassis number doesn't seem to discourage bidders...since even blue chips have demonstrated to be not so blue, people became crazy. $30,000 so far and reserve not met for an aluminium sheet. Madness.
 

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Yeah, that's a lot of money for a shell that's been chopped up enough that it'll need serious reconstruction. I wonder if some of the bidders might be mistaking it for a 208...
 

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Undoubtedly a restoration shop will find a screw hole somewhere on it, that an 80 year old original owner remembers putting on it 50yrs ago, to mount a racing glove holder. Voila an identity. Screw on a repro chassis plate, build it up, and there you have an original car.
 

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Discussion Starter #9
I'm not so pessimistic. There were up to 50 made of these in three variations. This is likely one of the first and more common variation. Let's say there were 30 of those. Might be more so don't hold me to that number. If the expert(s) is(are) willing to help, the new owner might be able to have a reasonable expectation of which chassis it is. Yes, it's a gamble at this time.

From what I see, it will certainly not be a low cost restoration. I own a 300BC that was restored to concours quality with the intention of returning it to original configuration. I know what the car cost me and what the restoration cost me. This car without engine, without transmission, without wheels and without seats with certainly be at least $100k more than I spent (assuming not DIY). If the buyer wants to not be underwater than I would suggest they think these cars in properly restored condition are worth north of $500k.

B34N
 

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Discussion Starter #12 (Edited)
Now $45k but reserve not met. Someone warn the seller to remove the reserve: luck touches you once in life.
It's interesting to see how at least two of the bidders have zero reputation points. I guess it is feasible that someone who never bought or sold anything on ebay is bidding and has brought it above $85k so far. At least it's not their first time bidding. They did their first single bid just seven days ago.
 

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Discussion Starter #13
Another 300BC on ebay

The bidding on ST*???*BC has already reached my high guestimates for a car without a chassis number. Considering the current $94K price for the ??? 300BC, the just listed ST*450*BC seems to be a steal at its buy it now price.

Sure, I prefer the earlier Bertone bodied cars, but having the last chassis of a series (with a chassis number at least) and being much more complete seems like a bargain compared to the action that ST*???*BC is getting. Also, I have a pretty good feeling that the seller of ST*450*BC will be able to give much more accurate and reliable information.
 

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ST*418*BC just sold at auction

Opinions will surely vary as to whether there was "good value" in the current sale of a very nice Siata 300BC. It is difficult to know if a minor fire during the offering helped or hindered the sale price? It made for a bit of spectator interest at a minimum.

ST*418*BC sold today at auction for a reported $235,000 plus commission. As with the majority of the first thirty examples, this car was delivered into the USA market without an engine fitted but accessorized to receive a Crosley engine that was normally fitted by or for the selling dealer or the first owner. The early history of the car is not yet described but it was certainly in Colorado as of the 1960's ... and reportedly earlier. The earliest paperwork reports what may have been the engine number (no longer fitted) of "C261727" but it is not known to me what that engine was. ST418BC had been fitted with a small Ford 4-cylinder that was removed from ST*401*BC after that car experienced an accident. ST*418*BC was restored 1986 by my father and myself and was fitted at that time with a Fiat 1100/103 derived engine as desired by the owner. It was sold two years later to the current seller.

The identity of the car that opened this thread is ST*408*BC. Although the firewall (and chassis number stamping) was partially cut away, just enough of the chassis number was remaining to make the identification 100% certain. ST408BC is now under restoration for a lucky owner who also has some other very interesting cars. Due to some damage, poor repairs and subsequent rust issues, some of the chassis will be made new but the body is surprisingly sound. Its early history is also not yet described but we are on the trail to learning more. Any help will be appreciated! ST*408*BC was formerly owned by David S. Burtner of Oklahoma (formerly of Maryland) who is perhaps best known in automotive circles for having raced a Jaguar C-type (XKC014) in the early 1960's with a Dodge or Plymouth slant-six engine fitted. He'd raced previously in an Allard J2X (chassis 3064). Following the Jaguar, he raced briefly(?) during the 1970's in a Ferrari 750 Monza (chassis 0552M), also apparently powered by a Mopar slant-six. It seems that David Burtner traded ST*408*BC to Doyle Goad (also Oklahoma) during the 1980's for some body and paint work on another car. Doyle Goad took some delight in calling the car a "Cobra" when showing it to friends and family. It seems the family did not know what the car actually was until one of the clan found Mark Bean's website devoted to the 300BC.

I was lucky to be exposed at a young age to a few Siata 300BC cars thanks to my father's interest and ownership of several cars. At one point, he owned five (of the fifty) examples simultaneously. This group included number "1" (ST*401*BC) and number "50" (ST*450*BC). In fact, it was largely this exposure (and my desire to contribute something to our knowledge base) that inspired the beginnings to my studies that resulted in "The Italian Car Registry" as it exists today. It was clear to me as a young teenager beginning a general study of automotive literature that there were errors in what I read in publications that were contemporary with the earliest marketing of the cars. I began to wonder if it was possible to describe the origins of the cars correctly and perhaps determine why there were so many errors in the words written about them. So far, there has been some success on both fronts but there is certainly more to do! Any input will be welcomed, including identifying the nature of the engine "C261727" (mentioned above in relation to ST*418*BC) and/or learning the precise time period of Dave Burtner's ownership of ST*408*BC ... and who he might have purchased the car from. The car has some distinctive features that, although not truly unique, will help us to identify earlier history once enough photographs are studied. Any photo of any of these cars is sought to help in the study of all the histories of all the cars in this series.
 

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ST*408*BC

Yes, the car on offer is ST*408*BC. Many correct parts have been gathered and lots of work remains. These are delightful cars when completed correctly.
 

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Hello Gentlemen,

I just wanted to update you on the life of ST*408*BC....

I bought the car, it has just landed in France and is heading to Italy in the next few weeks,

Thanks to @iicarJohn, @markbean and other knowledgeable souls, we plan to start the restoration.

If it is ok with you, I will try to update you with pics and questions as we go along...

Regards

Fred
 

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are you having the aluminium body done in Italy?....
to Pisa perhaps...:)
 
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