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Discussion Starter #1 (Edited)
Moved from another thread (my apologies to the mods for not posting here to begin with).


I hope that such incident serves as a cautionary reminder when someone is trying to sell something here where people should stay clear of any remarks and opinions.
Before I say anything, I want to make it clear that I don't have a dog in this hunt. But, I do have an interest in how the bb functions as a unique repository of information about Alfa Romeos. That repository is absolutely dependent on the free flow of information in all the forums. Free means free. More specifically, when someone---anyone---puts an item or car up for sale on the bb he should expect it to be freely commented on by other people. This is, after all, the Alfa bb for cryin' out loud, we talk about Alfas here!

There should never be an expectation that a part or car posted for sale, or a seller's description of a part or car is somehow sacred and not to be commented on. If seller's want that, go advertise in the paper because you sure won't get it on Bring A Trailer and you shouldn't expect it here, either. To repeat: the Alfa bb as always been about talking about Alfas. It is not specifically about selling Alfas. If you want a sales point go somewhere else.

Similarly, when someone is trying to buy a part or car posted on the bb, there has never been a rule in place that says others have to refrain from comment. The hard truth is, due to the very nature of the bb and its emphasis free exchange of information, nobody gives a hoot about the fact that you're trying to work a deal. That said you're as free to work a deal as the seller is to post the part and, most importantly, as other bb members are to comment on the condition, value, rarity, desirability, and any of an infinite variety of topics that interest people who like Alfas.

Oh. Good. Grief. End of rant.
 

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We should be able to comment..........
But it turns out that the BB is not equipped for that.
For real grown up car talk, I go to Rennlist !
 

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I agree, but when it comes to a post regarding a negative review of a business or a faulty product I feel they always turn into slanging matches instead of mature reviews.

Maybe they are best that way ... and maybe I was wrong to suggest otherwise in Sketchl's gearbox thread?
Pete
 

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I read that thread. Thought it was ballanced with pro and con.
I actually had a comment about my own purchase from that vendor, but declined to post it. Too risky.......

Similar to the grille thread, I was commenting on a posters request for the value of a pair of sand cast 45 webers. A reseller here requested that I stop telling him about the carbs because he wanted them for "his fathers car project".
Needless to say, I thought the request improper and continued.
As I noted "skin in the game" just means that you want the best deal, not always the fair deal for buyer and seller.
 

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As for the For Sale thread for the 1600 Grille that launched a few people into orbit...first of all, it's quite clear there is festered bad blood between the two main characters, for whatever reason and it is not important.. secondly, taking sides by outsiders to the fray is really counter-productive and in this case laced with territorial grudges that border on silly... lastly, the instigator to sparking this exchange fessed up like a man PUBLICLY and took his medicine and said he was "wrong" which I equate to an apology. I do think accepting his apology would be proper etiquette especially after referring to him as a "fool".

As for rules of sales... seller beware. Ignore the background noise. There is nothing in the book that says you have to acknowledge every posting. In fact ignoring some would be to your benefit and most serious buyers.
 

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I would rather have clarity over agreement.
Case in point....
Guy is looking for some tires.
I post that I have some.
Another member posts that these are a good brand of tire.
Original poster makes a rude reply to the member giving his opinion.
Now I know not to deal with a rude buyer !
Sometimes it takes a few posts to find that clarity.
I can deal with that !
 

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I would rather have clarity over agreement.
Case in point....
Guy is looking for some tires.
I post that I have some.
Another member posts that these are a good brand of tire.
Original poster makes a rude reply to the member giving his opinion.
Now I know not to deal with a rude buyer !
Sometimes it takes a few posts to find that clarity.
I can deal with that !
What happens between two other parties shouldn't be your affair. You can choose your buyer for whatever reason you want.. or you can say you won't. That's your prerogative.
 

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I have bit my tongue over this exact subject for quite some time. Yes, it is true that we should all be free to express our opinions because that’s what free societies do. With that said, there is a huge disparity between commenting and trolling say. I believe it’s the latter that’s causing problems.

I, like many members have found the BB as an endless resource to finding difficult items and getting technical answers answered by knowlegable people. Just recently, I found a product for Giulietta Sprints that hasn’t been available to the general public anywhere here or in Europe. First thing I did…..I let the members on this BB get first crack on getting a piece of something before it runs out. There is a difference between helping a member descifer what he or she is asking or wanting and sticking your noses where it doesn’t belong.

From my personal experience after the many many years of making solid connections with other members, my experience in selling a beautiful product on this same BB was a complete disaster.
I was getting personal e-mails from certain people demanding that I lower the asking price of “MY” car, otherwise I would be ridiculed in this wonderful public forum. I finally had to ask moderators to tell this loony-nut job to stay out of my personal business.

A week goes by and guess what, this particular person does exactly that. He and 2 other people on this exact thread are making fun of the asking price of the sale of my car. “must be a fire sale”…”people spend $47K to fix a car then try to sell for $49K”…….”I know the market better than most”……”I have purchased 4 cars from Europe, none over $12K”……”put it on E-Bay and let the truth be told”…blah blah blah. You see, these guys had absolutely zero interest in the purchase, sale or critique of my car. They were what many of us now refer to as “General Trolls”.

End of the day, I got full price and the same people who do nothing more than troll about their ways go on this same BB still harping about how it’s their F’n right to go-on about other people’s business. They should just shut the hell up and focus on enjoying their rides…..leave the buying and selling of products to those involved in the need.
 

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Discussion Starter #10
End of the day, I got full price and the same people who do nothing more than troll about their ways go on this same BB still harping about how it’s their F’n right to go-on about other people’s business. They should just shut the hell up and focus on enjoying their rides…..leave the buying and selling of products to those involved in the need.
Sometimes it appears that someone can be “of” a culture and not exactly “in” a culture. From the first time I logged onto the BB, I immediately understood the nature of it's discourse. Regardless of the topic or forum (and this includes sales of parts and cars), the kinds of conversations, from idle observations to in-depth and highly technical instructions on the most arcane of Alfa topics, the talk one find's here is exactly what you will find at any Alfa shop, any race-track, or any gathering of gearheads who know how to work on their own cars. Regardless of the topic being discussed, the talk can be pointed, jocular, informed, speculative. In context, what happens here is exactly what might happen if you were working on your Alfa while in the presence of other well-informed Alfa enthusiasts. If you've ever done this, you know that the person leaning over your shoulder offering suggestions (good or bad) is doing so within some time-honored customs of wrench-turning lore. Such suggestions (whether good or bad) are expected to be proffered and received as being well-intentioned. Always.

I've always enjoyed the BB because, from the very first, it immediately seemed to be an internet version of endless late-night bench racing sessions. But while this is both familiar and comfortable for those of us with mechanical interests and expertise regarding old Alfas---those of us who are “in” Alfa culture---the BB can also be a daunting, if not mystifying, place for people who, for various reasons, are more “of” Alfa culture but not exactly “in” it. One place this disconnect seems to show up is in the cars and parts sales forums. I think what happens is that people whose primary interest is in selling a car or part, who are mainly interested in doing a business transaction, occasionally become upset when they see people making comments which depart from their sales pitch. And that's where the disconnect lies.

Really now, for all of the above reasons (along with those in my first post) expecting a bunch of Alfa grearheads to not talk about Alfa cars or parts offered for sale is a bit much. Simply put, for what I hope are painfully obvious reasons, that ain't gonna' happen. Further, it's one thing to get butt-hurt when gearheads talk about your car. It's something else again to whine about it.
 

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Should People Be Free to Comment about Parts and Cars Advertised on the BB?

Sometimes it appears that someone can be “of” a culture and not exactly “in” a culture...
Jim, well said.

We can always count on you to state everything clearly. thoughtfully, and without mincing unneeded words.

Thanks, I really tire of all the whining and it takes energy I could expend elsewhere in trying to ignore it.
 

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Yes of course, really well written. However, the comment would have had more weight if it came from someone else besides the individual who began this thread about "whining". Pretty funny I must say......
 

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I realize that posting on any public forum will expose you to world wide opinions. I use the bulletin to sell items, purchase parts, help other Alfa owners and gather information. I believe that social media is good for many things, but not for personal information.
 

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Discussion Starter #14
I use the bulletin to sell items, purchase parts, help other Alfa owners and gather information. I believe that social media is good for many things, but not for personal information.

With all due respect if the bb consisted of the kind of one-sentence utterances you prefer it would be a barren place, indeed. Fortunately, the wealth of information contained here has been put in place and maintained by people who have a bit more to say.
 

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I use the bulletin to sell items, purchase parts, help other Alfa owners and gather information. I believe that social media is good for many things, but not for personal information.

With all due respect if the bb consisted of the kind of one-sentence utterances you prefer it would be a barren place, indeed. Fortunately, the wealth of information contained here has been put in place and maintained by people who have a bit more to say.
Spoken like a true politician.......many of us just assumed that the For Sale sections existed for those that need to purchase and sell. Personally, I assumed that the purchase or sale of cars and items had absolutely zero to do with the love of the Alfa from a mechanical, historical or restoration perspective. One would hope that those that have maintained this BB don't just make a habit of trolling about topics concerning other members personal items. One would think that their vast experience in life would keep them from sticking their noses into every general pie-hole.
 

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Discussion Starter #16
Spoken like a true politician.......
Sorry, but I'm the antithesis of a politician. They hate people like me, in fact.

many of us just assumed that the For Sale sections existed for those that need to purchase and sell. Personally, I assumed that the purchase or sale of cars and items had absolutely zero to do with the love of the Alfa from a mechanical, historical or restoration perspective.
Like I said, some of us are "of" Alfa culture without being "in" Alfa culture. In my village this is a staple of our conversations, right up there with cylinder head modifications, camshaft combinations, vintage racing, and importing Supers from Europe. You probably wouldn't like our "usual suspects" dinners at all . . .
 
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