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Hello all!

I'm not happy with the stiffness with regard to the KONI CLASSIC Shocks.....I've been searching for KONI SPORTS (yellow) with the hope that this will settle the situations.

Any adivise on shocks!! where should I purchase?

Thanks in advance

michael
 

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mister said:
Hello all!

I'm not happy with the stiffness with regard to the KONI CLASSIC Shocks.....I've been searching for KONI SPORTS (yellow) with the hope that this will settle the situations.

Any adivise on shocks!! where should I purchase?

Thanks in advance

michael
All Koni's are adjustable ... just remove them, collapse completely and then turn clockwise to increase stiffness.

No need to buy new shocks.
Pete
 

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Konis have been my choice since 1972. I like them because I drive 95% of the time on the street and they are great for that.
The red 'classics' I have on my Spider are adjustable. Its easiest to remove them to make the adjustment, but it can be done with just unhooking from the bottom support.
The range of stiffness is good but the stiffest setting on 'reds' is about the same as the lightest setting on 'yellows'. I am staying with reds even when I autoX; I just do an adjustment the day before the event.
 

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Koni

Koni regular shocks (such as the Classic orange and the yellow) are adjustable in rebound only; the compression valve setting is not adjustable. Some racing shocks they sell have independant rebound/compression adjustment. See: http://www.koni-na.com/adjustment.html

For a fairly stock car the Classics offer more than enough damping. On my basically stock GTV with orange Konis and a Ward and Deane sway bar on the back, with anything more than the minimum settting on the rear shocks the rear wheels would bounce off the ground on bumps while braking since the shocks would not let the suspension stretch quickly enough for the wheels to follow the road surface. With the heavier than stock sway bar on the back and no improvement to the roll stiffness on the front, the sway bar made the inside rear wheel lift and loose traction while exiting a curve - fortunately my LSD works. Any increase in rebound force would accentuate this tendancy. (Altogether my car was poorly set-up, but that's the way I got it). ;)

Depending on how far you want to go the oranges should give you some margin, I think in the Trans Am days that's all they had available. The yellows should give you even more margin. But for serious racing external adjustment would be essential; you have to talk to Koni about specific part nos., they don't have a listing of racing shocks by car type and brand, just sizes and forces. On a budget, Spaxes would be nice especially on the back with their external adjustment...
 

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Having only experience with the 116 type chassis I would have to say: DEFINETLY! ;)
But Ask someone from another part of the world and you will get another response...
 

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Shocking, german way

Bilsteins for 105's used to be available in "normal" and "sports" settings. I once drove a hot GTV with the sports ones, they were terribly hard. I've had similar comments for sports Bilsteins used on Golfs and a Volvo 123.

This gave the GTV great handling on the track, but they'd be way too stiff for the road, especially with a stock suspension. Remember, this is about the sports version which doesn't seem to be available anymore.

Stiff shocks may sound sporty, but while doing donuts on a flat surface they don't do anything. Shocks react to the velocity at which they're compressed; it's the springs and sway bars' job to control the degree of deflection. Springs have to be supple enough to let the wheels in contact with the ground on bumpy surfaces, the sway bars and springs limit roll, and the shocks need to be just hard enough to prevent the wheels from bouncing up and down. Too stiff shocks will leave wheels hanging up in the air, which is definitely not sporty! Everything has to be upgraded together, which is the nice thing about adjustable shocks - which Bilsteins aren't. They're very good quality, though.

Can Peter explain how he's reset the suspension? Cut a coil or two off the springs?

Has anybody tried to remove the aluminium spacers from the front spring pans? I believe they were introduced in a recall campaign (on 1750's) to bring the headlamps at the level required by NHTSA... :eek:
 

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Some years ago, I put together a car for the track, using the recomendation of the "in the Know" guys, who said to use the Bilsteen street shocks. "The valving was the best". It turned out the car had to be driven very carefully to keep it from spinning, the racing group (International Conference of Sports Car Clubs here in the Pacific Northwest) stopped black flagging me for spinning the car so often, since they also couldn't find out the problem.

Three years into this, the guys in the 2.5 Challenge helped me dissect my suspension, and decided the shocks were too stiff. We "borrowed" some red Konis from a customers car. and I picked up almost three seconds a lap, ( at Portland Int'l Raceway) the next morning.

I checked with Bilsteen's service department, and found they stiffened up the valving to satisfy the demand for the 1972 through 1974 owners, (those cars are heavier, need more shock to make them feel like you "got your monies worth".

I use red Konys for the race cars I build, and the yellow Konys for the VERY good drivers with VERY stiff suspension.

Adjust them like the Kony web site says, or as Carroll Smith's Tune To ... books suggest.

Hope this helps, George Willet

Note: The valving of the red Kony's in the softest setting, is the same as the stock Spica shocks for the '65 through '74 Alfa GTV, per Kony.
 

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I've always raced on Koni's (er, one car had spax ... but soon threw those things in the bin, way to stiff for my light car ... plus I had to return a brand new shock because the end was welded on crooked. They are externally adjustable though ... although I only ever ran on the softest setting), and I think as has said above that there is a major misconception that 'stiff' shocks are required.

The best thing to do is take your car and requirements along to a Koni specialist and let them work with you. For my last club car they made rear shocks for it ... and major improvement (after the spax ones). This cost $$$, but improving lap times always does.

I think the stiff shock [email protected] comes from the tyre shops that are trying to sell stuff all the time, it is reasonably easy to change a shock, quite a lot harder to change the springs.

Pete
 

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Wasn't he asking about shocks for track racing? There is (IMHO) no way you can seriously drive a 105 car on the track without some really stiff springs, you can't use std springs, they are utterly worthless at the track and hence you need dampers to match the springs.
 

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to stiffen or not to stiffen

George Willet said:
...
I use red Konys for the race cars I build, and the yellow Konys for the VERY good drivers with VERY stiff suspension.

Adjust them like the Kony web site says, or as Carroll Smith's Tune To ... books suggest.

Hope this helps, George Willet

Note: The valving of the red Kony's in the softest setting, is the same as the stock Spica shocks for the '65 through '74 Alfa GTV, per Kony.
Reminds me a comment made by Jim Hayes about setting up a race car: "The first nut you need to tighten up is the one behind the steering wheel." :p
 

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I think George has a good point - most people should go with the recommendation of the car builder or the suspension manufacturer. The springs and shocks are designed to work together, and mis-matching them can have detrimental effects.

For example, if you are using Ward and Dean Springs, use the shocks Alan Ward recommends.

Joe
 

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I had the springs re-set lower, because cutting coils increases the tension making the suspension very hard. This way the spring rate does not change, though care needs to be taken that the coils do not contact each other on compression. Probably the best solution is a combination of removing one coil, and then resetting the springs, this would make the spring rate a bit harder, and prevent the coils contacting each other.
 
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