Alfa Romeo Forums banner

41 - 60 of 76 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,018 Posts
Discussion Starter #41
I'm a bit late to this discussion and so in the interest of brevity (and in the interest of oh-so delicate sensibilities) I'll refrain from my usual vituperations.

I have only two brief comments:

1) This suggestion is one of the silliest ideas I have ever encountered on the bb.

2) Wherever and whenever they appear, the blandishments of self-appointed gatekeepers should always be understood as being self-serving and unhelpful.
I'm sorry that you just stole everyyone with sensibilities' 30 seconds from their lives, including mine, that we'll will never get back by reading your post. Put everyone on your ignore list please.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
4,631 Posts
I'm a bit late to this discussion and so in the interest of brevity (and in the interest of oh-so delicate sensibilities) I'll refrain from my usual vituperations.

I have only two brief comments:

1) This suggestion is one of the silliest ideas I have ever encountered on the bb.

2) Wherever and whenever they appear, the blandishments of self-appointed gatekeepers should always be understood as being self-serving and unhelpful.
Jim,

Your word mastery is appreciated and to the point. Do you teach by chance? ;) Possibly, there are a few who need to learn the fine art you display.

I believe a more appropriate word is "self-anointed" gatekeepers. Those making these suggestions are the same who fail to recognize that the market place has always depended on a willing buyer and a willing seller coming to the same or acceptable price point, no matter what was originally asked or where the beginning point began.

Those that do not want to be bothered with tire-kickers and lookie-loos know how and where to place their products for appropriate exposure and to get the price they feel they deserve and that their product warrants. For those of you that don't understand the parameters; hint: it isn't the bb. Many do not want disclosed who they purchased from, what they paid, etc., let alone what other cars they own. These sales are handled outside of the public forum and for many of the reasons that have been mentioned on this thread.

As I've said Alfisti are a warm, helpful, and inclusive group -- most, but not all sales, are never advertised, but simply known among friends and the contact and sale handled privately by those that know what is being sought and what is willing to be sold. Those complaining on this thread are viewing ads placed by amateurs; not the long-time savvy Alfisti.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,795 Posts
Spoken like a true advocate of free speech ! ;^)
Actually, our beloved pretender in chief is pressing on with in his attempt to have the FCC restrict your internet speech rights next week. :mad: This is despite last April and May rebukes by the courts and congress suggesting the FCC stand down.

Transparency for Thee, Not for FCC
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,018 Posts
Discussion Starter #44
Oy

"Cheryl
(Not an authority nor SME
on anything...)"

Obviously. Why are you still here? We endured your opinion already on the subject.

"Pretender in Chief"

Mr Hiatt, take your political hate agenda elsewhere.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
523 Posts
Hey everyone,

Please note that this is the "suggestions" forum. No one is dictating what will be done, or demanding restraints on any of the technical forums, or advocating restrictions on internet speech rights; members are only posting their ideas for ways to improve the "for sale" forums of the BB. I think that Ideas that could increase the effectiveness of the sales forums would be welcomed and embraced by both buyers and sellers. I look to "for sale" all the time to help find the parts, and bits and pieces that I need to complete the work on my Spider. To me it makes sense that the easier it is for me to find the items that are listed for sale, the more likely the seller is in making a sale; win - win. If some feel differently and believe that the sales forums are in their optimum state as they currently exist, then that is their suggestion and is weighed accordingly.

I freely admit that I'm an amateur and not a long time savvy Alfisti, (I've only owned 3 Alfas and bought my first in 1972). I also freely admit that I don't know many other Alfa owners, and in my area there are not a lot of other Alfisti to sell to or buy from; so I look often to the sales forum of the BB to help me with my project.

BTW, it is unlikely that any of the suggestions brought up in this thread would be incorporated into the TOS, but perhaps a current or potential seller would read the ideas expressed here and believe that one of those ideas could be used to improve his or her "for sale" post.

Best regards,
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,018 Posts
Discussion Starter #46
BTW, it is unlikely that any of the suggestions brought up in this thread would be incorporated into the TOS, but perhaps a current or potential seller would read the ideas expressed here and believe that one of those ideas could be used to improve his or her "for sale" post.

Best regards,
Thanks for the positive post. I started this thread to raise awareness that there are things that could improve the selling environment. I don't claim to have all the answers, but it seems that there are people who agree with the thread. I also hope, that unlike what I quoted above, that there would be a chance that there would be an addendum to the terms of use of this forum. There's been people who don't agree too, thinking that I want to bring a police state to the selling forum. To those people, I say :rolleyes:. Are rules really that offensive? How about we just remove all aspects of policing and rules from our daily lives. Would that make those people happy? How long would we last in that scenario? So I say to those people, grow up, recognize that there is always room for improvement, and stop turning an obvious improvement into an undermining of your personal freedoms. Seriously.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
4,132 Posts
I believe a more appropriate word is "self-anointed" gatekeepers
.

Cheryl, you have a point but "anointed" seems too lofty an appellation for gatekeepers whose efforts at rule enforcement, while sometimes annoying, fortunately don't often rise above the mundane.

Oh, yeah. I'm now a certified geezer: I'm retired. I watch my grass grow and work on old Alfas. :)
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
4,631 Posts
.

Cheryl, you have a point but "anointed" seems too lofty an appellation for gatekeepers whose efforts at rule enforcement, while sometimes annoying, fortunately don't often rise above the mundane.

Oh, yeah. I'm now a certified geezer: I'm retired. I watch my grass grow and work on old Alfas. :)
Congratulations! I haven't been that lucky yet...I've decided to stick it out unless my health simply doesn't allow it; I should know more after Christmas.

Kentucky in your plans?

Merry Christmas and a Happy New Year to you and Maggie.
 

·
Certified Oldschooler
Joined
·
7,003 Posts
I'm a bit late to this discussion and so in the interest of brevity (and in the interest of oh-so delicate sensibilities) I'll refrain from my usual vituperations.

I have only two brief comments:

1) This suggestion is one of the silliest ideas I have ever encountered on the bb.

2) Wherever and whenever they appear, the blandishments of self-appointed gatekeepers should always be understood as being self-serving and unhelpful.
Ditto. This reminds me of other helpful censorship suggestions in another thread. While I think this fishing for a sale is silly and non-productive, some may not, and it is not offensive or illegal. Just who (as in, WhoTF) are these folks who want to control and censor everything not to their personal liking without regard to reasonable protocol rules? I am simply amazed. Please get a life . . somewhere else.
 

·
Certified Oldschooler
Joined
·
7,003 Posts
Thanks for the positive post. I started this thread to raise awareness that there are things that could improve the selling environment. I don't claim to have all the answers, but it seems that there are people who agree with the thread. I also hope, that unlike what I quoted above, that there would be a chance that there would be an addendum to the terms of use of this forum. There's been people who don't agree too, thinking that I want to bring a police state to the selling forum. To those people, I say :rolleyes:. Are rules really that offensive? How about we just remove all aspects of policing and rules from our daily lives. Would that make those people happy? How long would we last in that scenario? So I say to those people, grow up, recognize that there is always room for improvement, and stop turning an obvious improvement into an undermining of your personal freedoms. Seriously.
No, some rules are reasonable and prudent. This idea is simply ridiculous to a free and open market place. I personally think it's silly but even e-Bay has a "Make Offer" option, among many others. What do you care if someone is fishing? How does it hurt you?? Or hurt the ABB?? If you don't like these kinds off sales mechanism then JUST DON'T LOOK or BID. And your premise is flawed. You simply have not explained how it hurts sales, just that it "does". I still think the moon is made out of green cheese but I haven't proven it to anyone. It hurts sales in YOUR mind and perhaps some others for reasons only a psychologist could fully understand and verbalize. It may hurt the seller but that's his business. But it does not hurt the ABB at all. Bruce
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,018 Posts
Discussion Starter #51
Ditto. This reminds me of other helpful censorship suggestions in another thread. While I think this fishing for a sale is silly and non-productive, some may not, and it is not offensive or illegal. Just who (as in, WhoTF) are these folks who want to control and censor everything not to their personal liking without regard to reasonable protocol rules? I am simply amazed. Please get a life . . somewhere else.
So I see from this offensive, insulting post that you really didn't read the original post that begins this thread. Censorship? Not ever mentioned or implied. Controlling? No, just asking for opinions and justification for improving the marketplace.
Reasonable protocol rules? Ding!
Who the F do I think I am, and I should get a life... somewhere else? I'd love to have you say that to my face and see how that goes for you, tough guy.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
222 Posts
Ditto. This reminds me of other helpful censorship suggestions in another thread. While I think this fishing for a sale is silly and non-productive, some may not, and it is not offensive or illegal. Just who (as in, WhoTF) are these folks who want to control and censor everything not to their personal liking without regard to reasonable protocol rules? I am simply amazed. Please get a life . . somewhere else.
why is the concept of censorship so hard to understand for some people? :rolleyes:

as was stated in 'another thread', the alfa BB is not a government run operation...it is a PRIVATE one. if simon decided he wanted to make a rule that a 'for sale' ad must include a price, he would absolutely be free to do so...and if he deleted posts that failed to include a price, that would NOT be censorship. ONLY THE GOVERNMENT can censor speech. i'm not sure how that can be made clearer.

if you don't like the idea, then just say you don't like it, say you think it's stupid if you want to be more of an a**, whatever...there's no need to (very incorrectly) make it political, or suggest that those who propose or support the idea want to 'control and censor everything' and should GTFO.

give me a break.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,018 Posts
Discussion Starter #53
why is the concept of censorship so hard to understand for some people? :rolleyes:

as was stated in 'another thread', the alfa BB is not a government run operation...it is a PRIVATE one. if simon decided he wanted to make a rule that a 'for sale' ad must include a price, he would absolutely be free to do so...and if he deleted posts that failed to include a price, that would NOT be censorship. ONLY THE GOVERNMENT can censor speech. i'm not sure how that can be made clearer.

if you don't like the idea, then just say you don't like it, say you think it's stupid if you want to be more of an a**, whatever...there's no need to (very incorrectly) make it political, or suggest that those who propose or support the idea want to 'control and censor everything' and should GTFO.

give me a break.
Thanks for clarifying. We needed that! ;)
 

·
Certified Oldschooler
Joined
·
7,003 Posts
You two ranters (and obvious tough guys, wow!) have completely eluded the fundamental points I made. You have not in the least explained how or why posting a For Sale classified without a price is a problem or why it should be banned, just that it should. How does it diminish or affect commerce, or hurt the ABB? In fact, many if not most posts in Parts for Sale use this mechanism, some with long lists. Ban them all too? Many sale sites include this type of sale (a.k.a., Make an Offer), and it seems fine as an alternative sale strategy. Why do you find it so offensive, or bothersome enough, to propose disallowing it? Who cares if they are fishing? Just pass if you do not like that method (or have no idea what to offer).

And in proposing disallowing it, yes, that is the very basic definition of censorship (* below). No one mentioned government censorship as in First Amendment rights here. Duh! Censorship can be a generic act performed by any official or person who performs it. Simon, et al, act as censors whenever they evaluate and remove posts or as de facto censors when they make rules to exclude certain types of posts. From what I understand, he has that right here.

As to “why is the concept of censorship so hard to understand for some people?”, it is simply because they see no reason for it where there is no real problem (see above) but only personal preference (and especially only narrow-minded personal preference). Proponents of every fringe element would love to propose rules to limit communication to suit their personal preference whatever that may be, possibly including even communications(or use of) on old cars because they pollute more or use more energy that their conveyance of choice.

So no, I do not support this frivolous proposal (and to me dangerous) for censoring communications.

PS: eliminating FS posts by non-paying members limits exposure to possible cars for sale by all ABB members, including paying members, who may be, in part, paying for full access to this information. There are two sides to communication - seller AND buyer. And why 5 posts as a trigger, why not 25, 37 or 59? There are guys that have hundreds of posts just for saying, "Nice car". ;-) Rules, rules, and more rules. Unless it violates basic decency rules, let 'em post.
--------------------------------
*From Dictionary.com:
cen•sor•ship [sen-ser-ship] - noun
1. the act or practice of censoring.
2. the office or power of a censor.

cen•sor [sen-ser] – noun
1. an official who examines books, plays, news reports, motion pictures, radio and television programs, letters, cablegrams, etc., for the purpose of suppressing parts deemed objectionable on moral, political, military, or other grounds.
2. any person who supervises the manners or morality of others.
3. an adverse critic; faultfinder.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
4,090 Posts
+1 to anfanuts post above!

Allowing free, non-subscribed ads, allows alfisti the opportunity to save and preserve marginal cars (for parts or complete) that would otherwise become tax write-offs or recycling metal.

Jes
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,018 Posts
Discussion Starter #56
"Add PS and deleted: "I will let the members evaluate your intelligence and manners here." Gee, you're so clever. As if people will see you as being the intellectual one here. People who take a calm, concise question and turn it personal = The next best thing to being right. :confused: So now that we all know how you feel about this topic, feel free to move along.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,169 Posts
I've seen at least one good idea within all the noise - don't allow posts in the classified section for members with under 5 (or 10, or whatever) posts. This would get rid of all the spam for Rolex watches, iPhones, etc.

Any objections to this very simple change? If this isn't too difficult to implement it would seem to be a no brainer.

-Jason
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,018 Posts
Discussion Starter #58
I've seen at least one good idea within all the noise - don't allow posts in the classified section for members with under 5 (or 10, or whatever) posts. This would get rid of all the spam for Rolex watches, iPhones, etc.

Any objections to this very simple change? If this isn't too difficult to implement it would seem to be a no brainer.

-Jason
I absolutely agree. Sadly, this might be confused as censorship by one of the most recent posters. Also, this might be considered to be a new "rule", which is also a terrible thing, apparently.
Thanks Jason, at the minimum, I think this would be a good idea too.
 

·
Certified Oldschooler
Joined
·
7,003 Posts
OK tough guy, you win! Tell Chloe she needs 10 posts first and needs to list a price, even if not in Classifieds. It's still a sale fish. Perhaps this is the car for someone here, a buyer? Censorship is a very slippery slope. Everyone has an opinion about what should be "limited" to make us more "civil". And rules beget more rules to patch holes and new personal preferences. No sales or fishing (What's it Worth) outside of Classifieds, have to put prices on all parts, no fishing posts elsewhere. Then another, then another, then a new admin, and another and another. And then you have 400,000 pages of CFR's and it crashes. Personally, I am tired of hearing about black cars being faster (about beat that one to death) but WTH cares. I think the membership and Admin team does a great job eliminating spam effectively. Perhaps a one post requirement would eliminate some auto spam but not a determined spammer. One of these days when CA finally outlaws your old polluting and noisy cars to make the place more civil, and this will happen, you will flock somewhere else where some liberties have been preserved. Seems this subject has been aired pretty well.

PS: I have one simple rule for you: if it ain't really necessary (isn't for you rules makers), don't make a rule.

---------------------------
Really could use some help...
Hi everyone,
I am so grateful to have found this site! I am hoping to get some advice on how to sell an Alfa that I have inherited. The only real information I have on it is that it is a 1967 Alfa Romeo GTV and it now lives in Santa Clarita, CA. To be completely honest, I have no idea where to start. I have tried to post on eBay Motors, but come to a complete dead end when asked to describe the vehicle.

You all seem to be experts in the Alfa world, is there anyone who can point me in the right direction, or has any advice? I have pictures of it, but can't even figure out how to include them in this post!

Thank you for your help,
Chloe
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,018 Posts
Discussion Starter #60
Lord, give me the strength to endure people like this guy. :rolleyes: Forgive him, for he knows not how much he annoys. Grant me the serenity to enjoy this board, even though people like him exist, unfortunately.
 
41 - 60 of 76 Posts
Top