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Discussion Starter #1
Is there any way to remove the seat without moving it forward and backward to access the seat rail screws? Due to some rust issues, the passenger seat will not move. There seems to be considerable rust on the rail next to the trans. tunnel, so much that it appears to be fused together. So far I have tried a lot of applications of PB Blaster but so far have had no success. I hate to demolish the pan since there doesn't. have much but some surface rust under the cushion. Any suggestions would be helpful.
 

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That's the only way I know of..................

Sit in the seat, pull the slider handle and push/pull. Spray more Blaster.
Push and pull........more Blaster......:(

Maybe someone else knows a secret!!!

.
 

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I had to once take an air chisel to the heads of the seat bolts. But that girl was rusty as Hell. PB Blaster and patience might work... I have little of the patience stuff, so I used the chisel! :) Good luck!
 

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From under the car - take a sawzall with a metal blade and cut a big square..big enough to drop the seat right through the floor...voila! seat removed!

But the air chisel idea..or just keep trying the standard method maybe easier in the long run...since I have no good advice on repairing the huge hole you have now put in your floorboard.
 

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You may be down to knocking the heads off the seat screws or take a hacksaw/sawsall to it. If they're original, they're probably super corroded and soft and crumbly now anyway. If you've got that much rust, you're probably going to have to weld in a lot of new metal anyway. The standard 4 lb hammer sometimes works wonders as a weapon of last resort. Whenever the 4 pounder comes out from under the workbench, Signorina Alfa knows Gianni means business.
 

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MAN!!! why didn't I think of the sawzall!!!

I had to take a dremel (didn't have anything bigger) and cut away the seat pan....once I had access to the rear bolts I tried an easy out (spraying with PB blaster everyday throughout the day) and just ended up drilling....once the head popped off I was able to remove the rest by hand....
 

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Discussion Starter #8
Since it's. Italian maybe a wine rack. This being the $200 rescue effort it should be a little more cooperative, after all it could have gone to the crusher if it haden't. been for me. I guess i'll. continue with the blaster and hammer. Eventually it will move. Thanks for the help. I will keep you informed of the progress.
 

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If you really want to try something different, instead of the overused/overrecommended PB Blaster, you can disolve the rusted steel with patience AND care. with muriatic acid. CAUTION: CORROSIVE LIQUID/VAPORS HARMFUL if proper ventilation/safety gear is not utilized. If interested, post, and Ill go into details...........

IT WILL TAKE TIME, BUT IT IS A VIABLE OPTION WITHOUT AIR CHESELS/COMPRESSORS/SAWZALLS.
 

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i had the same problem, mine were stuck all the way back so i cut the front mounting brackets and then rocked the seats back and forth untill the rear ones broke. my seat pans were a little bit worse off in the rust area then i had originally thought so during the rocking the passenger pan broke in to two pieces... i used the driver side as a template to make two new ones out of fiberglass. if you put wax paper down first the fiberglass wont stick to the old pans and all you have to do is muss the ever so fun glass into the same shape of the ols ones... really easy, then drill holes for the seat backs to be attached and for the mounting brackets and via la...

happy hunting
 

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Discussion Starter #12
Acid Treatment

If you really want to try something different, instead of the overused/overrecommended PB Blaster, you can disolve the rusted steel with patience AND care. with muriatic acid. CAUTION: CORROSIVE LIQUID/VAPORS HARMFUL if proper ventilation/safety gear is not utilized. If interested, post, and Ill go into details...........

IT WILL TAKE TIME, BUT IT IS A VIABLE OPTION WITHOUT AIR CHESELS/COMPRESSORS/SAWZALLS.
Please post details as this is a rescued '85 Veloce and it is not yet on the road. I'm. hoping to get it roadworthy over the winter since I can work on it in the heated basement garage. Mostly there isn't. much rust but the rear window on the passenger side was open to the weather while the PO stored it outside. Other than that the major rust area was in the outer body panels behind the rear wheels. Thanks again.
Conrad
 

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Please post details as this is a rescued '85 Veloce and it is not yet on the road. I'm. hoping to get it roadworthy over the winter since I can work on it in the heated basement garage. Mostly there isn't. much rust but the rear window on the passenger side was open to the weather while the PO stored it outside. Other than that the major rust area was in the outer body panels behind the rear wheels. Thanks again.
Conrad
Conrad,
sorry for delay....man, been busy as heck, going on vacat next wk, and had to finish up at work....

Guess you want to know how to proceed with the acid....Be warned, officially, I will not be responsible for personal injury/damage to your car due to misuse of muriatic acid, This is given in good faith that one will observe safety advice, so do at your own risk. It is an alternative to mechanical /impact methods, and requires patience. Everything has its costs. ANY TIME YOU GET ACID ON EYES GET TO WATER FAST, HAVE IT NEXT TO YOU SO YOU CAN RINSE YOUR EYES IN IT FOR 10+MINITES WHILE ROLLING YOUR EYEBALL AROUND AND SEPARATING YOUR EYELIDS. Skin contact is no way as critical, but rinse off just the same with water! Ive seen accidents at work, but made only out of carelessness from not wearing goggles!!!!!

Muriatic is technically HCl, hydrochloric acid sold at pool supply/home depot, etc. Before opening jug, wear good, clear, safety goggles, and pliable rubber gloves (playtex dishwashing gloves are OK. use thre right size, or your hand will get cramped. Use outdoors, with plenty of ventilation/open doors/fan blowing on low.

Basically, you want to place drops of acid on the rusted out threads where you suspect the fusing has occurred. Start by sprinkling some baking soda (sodium bicarbonate) at the base of the bolts/whatever so in case you drop too much acid and it runs, the bicarb will neutralize it and prevent acid damage from seeping down lower to carpet/steel plate/base/whatever. Apply more bicarb as needed as you continue. If bicarb soaks up some acid, it will neutralize it, BUT it will become salt, which, eventually has to be soaked/rinsed out as well after all is completed. If you are neat/careful/tidy, all you will have to do is vacuum up bicarb in the end.

Pour a tiny amt of acid in a convenient dropper bottle, of a sort, (an empty visene botle is ok, or similar. You can squeeze out a drop at a time, enough to wet the rusted steel, and keep it wet. This will take some time, it varies. I dont know how encrusted your bolts are, so you must judge. Dont put too much so as to make it sizzle the bicarb over and over, cuz youll just be wasting acid/saturating the protective bicarb. PLACE RAGS AROUND THE AREA To PROTECT ADJACENT CARPET, ETC!!!! Wear old clothes, in case a drop spills on your shirt etc. DO NOT EVER REMOVE YOUR GLASSES DURING THIS!!

If your skin touches the acid, dont panic, as its a simple matter of rinsing asap with water. keep a bucket full close by. I get acid on my arm occasionally, and after, say, a minute, you will feel an itchy tingle, meaning get to water and rinse. Thats all. But, you must rinse, or it will irritate.

After youve done this for a while, say, 15 min, soak up the bolt rusted area with a rag moistened in water, wipe/clean area well, blot clean, inspect bolt for effectiveness, and repeat with clean acid. You see, after a while, the acid on the bolt reacts to form mostly iron chloride, and it dilutes the effect of further drops of acid, so thats why you gotta clean /wipe it up and start/repeat over again. The acid should disolve the iron with time, BUT you will have to decide if its worth it to continue. its a personal thing, really. As I said, its maybe not the easiest, just an alyternative without tools/equipment.

In end, wipe down with clean, rinsed in water, damp rag, and repeat to get all residue of acid/salts formed off. Clean up bicarb with vacuum or rag dampened. Muriatic is about 75% concentrated HCl, but the strongest available to gen public. I actually use 100% HCl,. when necessary, but again, its too fumey. Hopefully, the acid will eat through the rusted thread, and break off at a weak point, then you can put new ones in .

Good luck.

Tomorrow will be my last day on the North American Continent for a week, so pls let me know what you think/other concerns/abandon the idea for something else. It was sure a lot of typing with 2 fingers(LOL)
 

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First, remove all the carpeting and any padding/sound absorbing material in the foot well. Second, poor in enough penetrating oil to fill the foot well to the edge of the door sill, about 3 gallons. Third, wait three months. Finally, suck any remaining oil out of the foot well with a straw. Your seat should be free to move, either that or your bowels, I forget which.
:rolleyes:
 

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First, remove all the carpeting and any padding/sound absorbing material in the foot well. Second, poor in enough penetrating oil to fill the foot well to the edge of the door sill, about 3 gallons. Third, wait three months. Finally, suck any remaining oil out of the foot well with a straw. Your seat should be free to move, either that or your bowels, I forget which.
:rolleyes:
LOL. Guess you dont agree with the acid method, huh? seriously, if metal is rusted/fused, oils are useless.
 

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I think what needs to be considered insofar as the application of a penetrating oil versus the more severe application of an alternative method that result in the ultimate destruction of the offending fastener, is the degree of corrosion and or rust that has taken place, and whether or not the fastener is to be salvaged.

Personally, I've played with some pretty rusted together nuts and bolts in what I will admit has been some pretty crude testing of what is now my favorite penetrating oil (dare I say the initials? :) ). Even where the exposed threads are deteriorated to the point of not being salvagable, the penetrating oil repeatedly demonstrated having a positive effect in breaking down the corrosive bond between them. I've "tested" nuts and bolts so severely rusted together that I would come close to snapping them with two socket wrenches, yet, once giving the them a shot or two of penetrating oil, in a minute or so, they would come apart without too much effort.

In the end, IMHO, there should be no methods that should be excluded, nor be thought of as the only means of accomplishing something such as this.

You wouldn't use a stick of dynamite to crack an egg for breakfast would you?

Just one "back yard" wrench's two cents.
 

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Discussion Starter #19
Since I haven't. been able to move the seat to expoae the mounting screws, I can't. try the acid treatment to them. I am continuing to spray oil into the track and once a week I try to give it a little grntle persuasion with the hammer and wood block. No movement yet but since this is the $200 rescue car, and I have the graduate to actually drive (and fix from time to time) as well as stealing one of the 164's from my wife, we will eventually get the seat moving again. Thanks for all the advice and when I get the screws exposed I may try the acid treatment. I will send progress reports.
Conrad
 

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If there's nothing left in the area of the seat rail that could catch on fire, I'm picturing a pretty deteriorated seat, you could try heating it with a small torch. I think that this won't react in a meaningful way with just a heat gun.

The idea being to get the parts to expand and contract, which they will do at different rates because of where the heat is on one directly, and indirectly on another part, and you may be able to break them free.

If you can get away with it, I'd think that using one of those propane or MAPP hand torches that they sell at the big box stores would do, along with some patience. How much and for how long would be totally subjective. I'm told that the MAPP burns hotter.

Also, be mindful of any plastic pieces, knobs, etc that are attached or near by and remove them if you can to prevent any melting issues due to the heat traveling.

Needless to say that any previous application of oil and the like will likely burn, but will burn off in a relatively short period of time so ventilation and a fire extinguisher might be a good idea.

Just some ideas.
 
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