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Discussion Starter #1
Hi all

I am in the process of re-wiring and plan to upgrade to H4 hi/lows on the outside position and keep the fog lites on the inside position, which come with a relay from the factory. I'll add a relay and some 12ga wire for the H4's, sticking with 65/50w lamping so no major rethinking of the alternator or other components is needed. If this proves too dim (unlikely) I can always add some firepower to the inner lights.

My question - and I did search a lot - is whether the H4's are a drop in replacement for the sealed beam buckets that my American 115 series 73 GTV2000 would have come with.

Here's a link to the 7" H4's from Hella, which I gather are refered to as HB2's in the American vernacular. And they are now legal.

Amazon.com: Hella High Performance 7" Halogen HB2 Conversion Headlamp: Automotive
 

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I'm not familiar with the HB nomenclature, but Amazon also carries the standard H4s that I've used for years on various cars.

Link
 

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H4, HB2 and 9003 are designations for the same size/design Halogen bulb, more or less, and you can interchange them physically. But the bulb is not the issue in the question you're asking. It's the headlamp itself.

The 7" Hella H4 headlamp you're talking about fits your car, if your car still has the original buckets. What you want to confirm is that your buckets have slots for three (3) locating tabs which are built into the outer back edge of the headlamp itself and that your headlamp indeed has these locating tabs. (Some Euro cars use other means of locating headlamps in their buckets.) See the attached photo, which shows two of the three evenly spaced tabs (the tabs on some lamps are solid but will be the same shape).

Here's a photo of the bucket on my '65GT showing the three locating slots.

As the attached article indicates, everything else being equal, you want a high-quality H4 bulb for max output.

Chuck
 

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Discussion Starter #4
Thank you this clarifies it immensely. I will check tonight.

H4, HB2 and 9003 are designations for the same size/design Halogen bulb, more or less, and use can interchange them physically. But the bulb is not the issue in the question you're asking. It's the headlamp itself.

The 7" Hella H4 headlamp you're talking about fits your car, if your car still has the original buckets. What you want to confirm is that your buckets have slots for three (3) locating tabs which are built into the outter back edge of the headlamp itself amd that your headlamp indeed has these locating tabs. (Some Euro cars use other means of locating headlamps in their buckets).
 

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Yes, those lamps you point at on amazon have the sealed beam style square loops. The normal H4's don't have those.
e.g. Outer headlight | Classic Alfa Romeo spare parts and accessories

I'd put a low beam relay and high beam relay. The normal lever down switching goes between low and high, but the push-in flash actuation has both high and lows on for the time you push in the stalk. As you wish. I did it with separate relay, but I was also doing with the stock fusebox which already had things separated.
/Neil
 

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Discussion Starter #6
Here is a (horrible) pic of one of my buckets. I suppose this means that the headlight housing (let's drop talk of the bulb) linked to on amazon will fit, yes?
 

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Discussion Starter #8 (Edited)
Great. I bought one to test the fit, as well as 2 Hella 5 pin SPST relays, with dual 87 terminals. I'll do a high and low beam relay as suggested.

I plan on using the "legal" 65w/50w bulbs, but obviously I (or the future owner) could end up with higher wattage. Is AWG 14 a conservative wire gauge to use? 12?

Anyone have a shop to recommend that sells quality wire by the foot with no minimums? Obviously I need a lot less than a 100 or even 25' spool, but I need several colors.
 

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I've always used 12ga wire for headlights: it'll pass the juice better, not much of a cost premium over 14ga, if any, so why not.

Except for possible concourse considerations, taking the load -literally and figuratively - off the old Alfa switch gear ought to be standard practice, so good on you. Here are the four big moisture resistant Hella relays I'm using on my '65GT: Low, high, fog and driving with the lows staying on with the highs, the driving operating only when the highs are on, and the fogs operating independently of all the others.

Have fun!

Chuck

PS You should be able to find better pricing on the Hella lamps; you want the Euro Code (not DOT compliant) lamps (unless they check stuff like that where you are). For example: http://www.4wd.com/Jeep-Lighting-Jeep-Lighting-Accessories/HELLA-Vision-Plus-High-Low-Beam-Halogen-Conversion-Kit.aspx?t_c=14&t_s=67&t_pt=4730&t_pn=HLA002395801&utm_source=google&utm_medium=cpc&utm_campaign=shopping&emlprox=out&ppcfon=1&gp=1&gclid=CjwKEAiA_4emBRCxi8_f2cWWjFcSJAB-v1qybsRqhaS-YJO6WJb1pBiFTQIYsDa7U5kWrjadQ9c-BxoCs6jw_wcB


http://www.myhellalights.com/pdf/2012_HELLA_INC_Accessories_Catalog.pdf
 

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Discussion Starter #10
Are you trying to upstage me with your nice weatherpack connectors? Because you are. Very nice. That kit does seem to be a good deal if the bulbs are included. The housings themselves are the same price as Amazon sells for ($37.50 ea) but the bulbs would be a nice bonus.

Since you seem to be meticulous about these things, what is the best practice for mounting new devices such as the relays to a painted engine bay? SS self tapping screws? Any protection needed for where they penetrate?

Good call on 12ga.
 

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Remember, you're wanting -well, at least I'm suggesting you want - the Euro lamps, Hella's part # 002395801, which is the kit with 60W/55 bulbs you've mentioned. They make a DOT version which isn't as nice as far as beam pattern goes.

Here's a really bad photo of the relay bracket you see above. It mounts using the driver side upper radiator mounting bolt, which you can make out. I didn't want to drill any holes anywhere and this location places the relays about as far forward and out of sight as you can get and still access them when needed. Bracket is a simple "L" shape in plan with a corner clipped off for clearance against the headlight bucket area. I used 1/8" aluminum sheet.

Otherwise, Alfa seemed content to use self-tapping sheet metal screws in the engine compartment, so I guess more would be in keeping with the original. I'd use some metal conditioner on the freshly exposed fender steel and then some CorrosionX Heavy Duty or some CorrosionX MAXWAX on the screws, or something similar, to seal them from the wrong side/underside.

Chuck
 

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Discussion Starter #12
Clever relay mounting - now I can see why you went all out for the weatherpack - your location is probably more exposed than where the factory puts the engine bay relays.

My amazon order already shipped but I suppose having to pay return shipping is more than balanced out by the savings from the bulbs, not to mention the euro beam pattern.

The euro housings would have the same three-prong locators on the back, yes?
 

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Remember, you're wanting -well, at least I'm suggesting you want - the Euro lamps, Hella's part # 002395801, which is the kit with 60W/55 bulbs you've mentioned. They make a DOT version which isn't as nice as far as beam pattern goes.

The Hella relays are cool. Where did you get them?

It's easy to get confused about headlight fittings on 105 series Alfas. The early European and American model 105's used the 3 lug mounting. So, if you have a 67 GTV, whether European or American, use the 3 lug mount headlights common on the US version cars. If you are buying headlights from either an American or European vendor always ask what the mounts are because most vendors, regardless of which side of the Atlantic their on, assume that their models fit all Alfas. They don't.

Alfa made a change about the time of the 1750's (don't know exactly when) and went to Alfa specific slotted-fin type mountings. These are completely different and won't fit the American 2 lug SAE and American halogen model headlight buckets. This can be a source of real confusion because the European vendors often list headlights for their slotted-fin headlight cars without mentioning that the US versions are different while the US vendors don't seem to know that European version cars in the States can't use the headlights they list for American models. This is where the BB comes in.

Note to vendors: There is a difference guys!

Exactly why the change was made is lost in the mists of Alfa-time. The US models stuck with the "old" style mounting because it became a USA/DOT standard requirement for seald beam headlights. I don't know of any other cars, beside Alfa, that use these slotted-fin style headlight mounts. This makes finding replacements a but difficult at times.

The plot gets even thicker when buying aftermarket headlights from EBAY. A lot of these lights that fit our cars are NSO and the sellers don't know the difference. I often see very pricy Marchal headlights for "Alfa Romeos" without any notation of the difference. Somebody's probably paid big money for lights that would not fit a US model Alfa, despite being for "Alfa Romeo". Likewise, I have a set of the same lights that were sold as "European" model Marchal's that have the standard 3 lug SAE mounts.

To put these cool Marchals in my Super, which uses the slotted-fin mounts, I'm going to have to install headlight buckets from a US model Alfa. Fortunately I have a pair.
 

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Discussion Starter #14
That is exactly the type of compatibility nightmare I came here seeking, and found, answers to. Thanks for putting it down in words. Should have my Dot legal h4 housing and hella relays here this weekend, will post confirmation that all works.
 

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Just to thicken the plot a little more . . . here's a really informative video from a UK headlight vendor who discusses changing from sealed beams to halogen 7 in headlight. Note that he's using an aftermarket headlight bucket designed to fit the 2 nub mounts which are now apparently more or less standard standard, even on European model cars (except Euro 105 Alfas, of course).

I notice that Alfaholics sells a bolt in headlight assembly which appears that they're using on their GTA-Rs much modified cars. These look interesting in that they come with both the buckets and headlights.

 

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Discussion Starter #18
I received the Hella from Amazon - its beautiful, made in germany and did in fact come with the bulb and sealing boot. Fits perfectly into my USA buckets.

Only remaining question is what to use to wire up to the terminals? Anyone have a link to a recommended socket, with 14AWG or larger wire?
 

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Someone asked so here's an answer: My relays are as far out of sight as I could reasonably get them and still access them and very close to the battery, where the juice originates. So the 12ga wiring runs to the lights are as short as possible, which is good.

For the grounds, I ran a separate 12ga wire from each lamp to the existing battery ground cable connection at the hood hinge. I terminated these grounds with "eye" terminals and replaced the existing battery cable bolt with a longer one, so I'd have a nice, clean "ground lug" to use.

I ran the wires along or near existing wiring bundles to make them less conspicuous and wrapped them in the OE style black loom wrapping tape (not electrical tape!) in an attempt to make them look original.

Obviously this'd cost me in a concours, but I figure if I start getting invited to concours I can pretty easily unplug and remove all this "new" stuff.

In the meantime, when it gets dark -if I'm ever out after dark! - I'll be able to see where I'm going. Nothing like switching on six high-wattage Halogen bulbs all at once, especially when the big pencil beams reach out an touch stuff well over a mile!

The Hella relays were sourced straight from Hella, but are available from several retailers. The bases are a bit harder to find. I like Waytekwire for wire, terminals, etc..

Welcome to Waytek

Oh, signal (switching/control) wires to the relays are light gauge since they're just controlling the relays. Each new circuit has it's own fuse and the switching logic required a couple of diodes, which live in moisture resistant cases with the fuses. The original selling dealer in Frankfurt had installed a pair of Hella fog lights on the front bumpers and a fourth OE toggle switch on the dash alongside the standard three; that'll be all I need to control the auxiliary lights.

Chuck
 

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