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Discussion Starter #1 (Edited)
Please find attached an excerpt of Fusi's book "Tutte le Vetture dal 1910" (All cars from 1910) regarding production numbers.

Note: Fusi's book seems to have a number of errors. A better way to find out about your car is contacting the Alfa Romeo Historical Archive, as described here.
 

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Discussion Starter #2
Next batch...
 

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Discussion Starter #3
Third (and last) batch...
 

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tubut said:
Note: Fusi's book seems to have a number of errors.
I guess so. My car is 105.62.1486197, and that's not even a possibility according to Fusi. His list has my model ending at 1484042!
 

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Farace said:
I guess so. My car is 105.62.1486197, and that's not even a possibility according to Fusi. His list has my model ending at 1484042!
This is a good example of one of the many mysteries of published Alfa records (and possibly the limitations of Fusi's record keeping).

While your car does not appear in Fusi, D'Amico & Tabucchi list it as being a 1750 Spider Veloce iniezione America built in 1971.

Their chassis number ranges are as follows for the 105.62 cars:

1968: 1480001 - 1480216
1969: 1480217 - 1481372
1970: 1481373 - 1482220, and 1485001 - 1485702
1971: 1485703 - 1486880 (chassis 1486654 - 1486660, 1486665, 1486666, 1486791, 1486802 - 1486820, 1486823 - 1486832, 1486852, 1486863 - 1486872 fitted with 2000 engine).
 

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Are there any numbers after 1972? I have an engine 00526 S2967 or SZ967 that I can't identify. It is a 2L block, and I assume the 00526 means it came out of a super, but I would like to know for sure.

John
 

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johnnym said:
It is a 2L block, and I assume the 00526 means it came out of a super,...
Yes, the type 00526 engine was indeed fitted to the Giulia Supers but in 1600cc form, not 2L. The letter 'S' in the engine number designates an 'EmCon' engine (emission control) which, as far as I can determine, started appearing late 72/early 73. There should also be the letter 'A' somewhere on the front of the head.
 

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Oh dear-

This means I have a 2L head on a 1600 block. I have double- checked, and the head has "2.0" stamped on it. It seems to work OK- other than a recent overheating problem, I have driven about 3,500 miles in it since I bought it with no problems.

Is there any chance they could have made 0526 engines in 2L?

John
 

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johnnym said:
Is there any chance they could have made 0526 engines in 2L?
Well, we are talking Alfa here. :rolleyes: But I don't think so. The documents I have show that the type 526 engine is a 1600 thru 1976. And Alfa typically kept the displacement the same for a given engine type.
The '20' on the head, I think, does not refer to a 2.0l but is rather a casting number of some sort. The 2.0 casting on 2l heads I've seen is also much larger than whats on your head. Another clue is the square on the head. This is Alfa's symbol for a 1600. (see this post)
Another way to determine engine size is the distance from the top of the waterpump to the top of the block (the deck). On a 1300, the pump is about flush with the deck, 1600s have the deck about 25mm above the pump and on a 1750/2000 engine, the distance is about 40mm.
 

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Thanks PapaJam!

I confirmed with the Archivio Storico that the engine is indeed a 1600. I measured the distance water pump to block and it is definitely 25mm.:)

I am now very happy that my engine is not a complete mongrel:D

John
 

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Re: Fusi
Acording to Fusi, my '65 GTA (# 613672) was never built, nor did it have an engine (# 502/A*19229). Elvira confirmed that it was built on 7/19/65 and sold to ARI in Newark, Nj on 3/16/66. Alfa red with black interior (Wrong. Interior is dark gray.)
Ed
 

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Well, if your point is to make note that there can be errors in Fusi, you're of course right. If with that you intend to play down his work, I have two observations:

1) Fusi did an exceptional job in gathering and sorting data, putting it all together, remembering himself old episodes and/or asking knowledgeable witnesses, and so on. Over the huge amount of data, computed without technical help (no excel, no computers) by an already retiree then, just exceptional, the number of errors is on a remarkably low side compared to the amount of job done.

2) The GTA is a special case. Fusi's first edition dates 1965. Alfa cheated with production numbers (1000 were required for homologation), thus they needed to create discrepancies in the chassis numbers. Remember that in recent years, Fiat decided that the GTA files would be kept classified... Since Fusi wrote in the sensitive period for that issue, no wonder his data just add another layer of mist...
 

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The D'Amico & Tabucchi book (the original 2 volumes in a slipcase version) is being reissued, but will be expensive. The original is very difficult to find at less than $500; even more than a copy of Fusi. I believe it is a bit bit more accurate than Fusi, but still has any number of errors. The same problem with incorrect or incomplete record keeping exists with many Italian car companies, including Ferrari !

BTW, there are copies of Fusi available on CD Rom...
 

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Ckd

gtv2000 said:
G.d.= Guida destra= right hand drive
CKD= Car knocked down= assembled in an abroad factory (such as South Africa or Malaysia most probably) from a kit.
Thanks gtv2000..Read the South Africa Alfa thread..Answers all my questions...Nice one guys:)
 

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Discussion Starter #17 (Edited)
gtv2000 said:
Well, if your point is to make note that there can be errors in Fusi, you're of course right. If with that you intend to play down his work, I have two observations: [snip]
I had no intention of playing down his work. In fact, I'm grateful the book exists. However, I do have a problem with the job the editors did: lousy proof-reading. There are so many errors in the production numbers that I see as being a result of transcription errors and typos, that they could (and should) have been weeded out by the time the 3rd Edition appeared.

With respect to completeness, I have no problesm accepting the fact that it only shows information that was available at the time and cannot contain information that was discovered later. This is the main reason why I suggested taking the information with a grain of salt and contacting the historical archive for the latest (and best) information about a specific car or model.

I heard about d'Amico & Tabucchi's book that there is/was a 3rd tome with corrections. However, I never saw it and therefore do not know if that information is correct. The new and revised edition is curently scheduled for publication in 2007, see here.
 

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tubut said:
I had no intention of playing down his work. In fact, I'm grateful the book exists. However, I do have a problem with the job the editors did: lousy proof-reading. There are so many errors in the production numbers that I see as being a result of transcription errors and typos, that they could (and should) have been weeded out by the time the 3rd Edition appeared.

With respect to completeness, I have no problesm accepting the fact that it only shows information that was available at the time and cannot contain information that was discovered later. This is the main reason why I suggested taking the information with a grain of salt and contacting the historical archive for the latest (and best) information about a specific car or model.

I heard about d'Amico & Tabucchi's book that there is/was a 3rd tome with corrections. However, I never saw it and therefore do not know if that information is correct. The new and revised edition is curently scheduled for publication in 2007, see here.

As far as I am aware, the correction were only done as a small brochure, and was only obtainable through a direct request from the publisher. The book was first published in 1996, and the "adendum" circa 1998.

It is possible, however, that some of the last books from that production run had the brochures already inserted, as due to the high price, the first edition was available as late as 2001!!

I don't think a second edition was ever done of the two volume book.

Later (circa 2003), a fairly thin, single book, incomplete version was done at around $25-$30, and these can still be found on e-bay most of the time. IMO, this version doesn't have much worth..
 

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dretceterini said:
As far as I am aware, the correction were only done as a small brochure, and was only obtainable through a direct request from the publisher. The book was first published in 1996, and the "adendum" circa 1998.
Ruedi and Stu: this is right: I got my version with a 16 pages errata inserted, but I seem to remember it was earlier than 1998. Yet, the huge errata was far from addressing all the many, many errors. Polemics arose also about the 16HP "Fiacre" type Darracq the authors included as an Alfa, while it was probably never produced as such, if at all.

All in all, Tabucchi's book is by far less reliable than Fusi. Yet it adds quite much documentation and material, but it counts among the missed occasions. I've heard about the revised edition, but I'll carefully rate how much new there is in: already in the 1996 version, hundreds of pages covered the cars then in the showroom next block...

And indeed, Fusi's typos and errors are most probably publishing ones: again, there was no such thing as a computer then, just figure out the work of manually typing or writing down with a pen all those figures... Errors were unavoidable, and yes, they shall have been corrected for the 1978 edition, if only someone competent enough had done the job of checking through them all.
 

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I think the Tabucchi book augments the Fusi book, but as GTV2000 said, doesn't replace it. I am waiting to see the new edition to see if it is worth buying. It's not cheap....
 
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