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Discussion Starter #21
checked the sparkplugs yet?;)
Not yet, I was hesitant to remove them without dedicated tools, as I will not be able to apply the correct force when putting them back in..


IAV: is on the plenum (photo1).
Remove the electrical plug.
winding test: Put your ampmeter to the 2 terminals and check resistance (you should get somewhere between 7-11 Amps)
Did you mean Ohm? If so, I got 8.7 Ohm resistance.


The cleaning part worked well, apart from me not being sure if that rubber insert in the plenum is airtight or not. It feels pretty loose. I have attached two pictures so that you get an idea how much (or how little) grease is in there.





Looking to do the VVT check tomorrow, I just bought two wires to connect the terminal to power and ground with.

As always, thanks a lot! Needless to say that the cleaning of the IAV did not help the situation.
 

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Discussion Starter #23
It seems you are over your head with this problem. Seek help locally or find a mechanic that is alfa knowledgeable.
Granted, I am pretty new to this, but so far I managed to do quite a lot on the car and I am learning each time I try. Even though it might seem trivial how much grease there has to be around that ring (see last post, just as an example), I am sure someone will eventually read this and benefit from it, don't you?

Or are you simply suggesting there might be a bigger problem I won't be able to find?
 

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I'm saying it would be much faster if you found someone that knows the system and you can look over their shoulder and get a education.
 

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Discussion Starter #25 (Edited)
Update

So, I took your advice on turning to a specialist and had the car with two different mechanics now (both of which work exclusively on Alfa, one even exclusive to Spiders).

The first mechanic was unable to find the culprit altogether. He said that he suspects a faulty injector, but would be unable to order one for me.

The second mechanic looked at the throttle body and found it to be in order. The same applies to the IAV, that I have cleaned previously. He took out the spark plugs and found them to be sooty, saying the air/fuel mix was thick. He also said that the exhaust fumes contained 2% CO, not the normal 0.5%. He could not pinpoint the problem either, but would start by replacing the AFM, as mine has been tempered with by a PO (the seals on top of the screws are missing).

Any advice on whether I should be hunting for a new AFM or test the VVT first?

For anyone who just started reading: When warm, the car needs 6-8 seconds to start and sometimes even stalls right after or when rolling in neutral.
 

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What about checking the oxygen sensor? If it is bad the computer will compensate to keep the system in order, making a car run bad. This is something that you need to dig into thoroughly. It could be any number of items that is causing the issue.
Fuel pressure, fuel pressure regulator, air leaks, bad injector, bad air flow meter, thermo valve in the manifold sending a bad signal to the computer. The thermo valve in the manifold needs to be measured on a ohm meter to see if it falls in the correct range. These go bad.

What did the mechanics check when you took it in? Look at the work order.
 

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yes, what did the mechanic/s actually do?

sooty plugs - did he change them or at least clean them? (get rid of the golden lodge in there at the moment, they must be the age of the car, and replace with NGK BP6ES set to 0,7mm) - that might even cure your problem!

high CO - did he check the lambda sensor? (high CO won't be doing the kat any favours, and that is real expensive to replace)
'suspects' AFM - what reason did he give? Did he do any resistance checks?
'suspects' injector - In most cases they can be serviced with new hoses seals and microfilters professionally, all four for about 150 euros. If you want one new one you will find it NOS, but it'll cost a fortune!

- did he check fuel pressure? (if you pinch off the fuel return line from the FPR is there any difference to warm starting?.....if you pull off the vacuum hose to FPR, is there fuel in it?)

and lastly (not leastly) where in the world are you situated? It is sorta polite to put that in your signature line, then at least people trying to help, know if they could maybe pop round the corner and offer a hand in person...
I would if you were in my neck of the woods, and I could bring long a spare AFM, or ECU, or TPS or IAV..........:)
 

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Discussion Starter #28
I have no clue what exactly he has checked, he only mentioned the throttle body, IAV, air filter and spark plugs to me. He did allegedly clean the spark plugs.

I am quite certain that he checked neither the AFM's resistance nor the lambda sensor.

One would think it can't be so hard to find a knowledgeable Alfa mechanic in Berlin, Germany...







Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 

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ah ok, Berlin....bit far from me

which workshop did you go to in Berlin? ask on the alfisti forum who they recommend.

I only heard of Capuozzo (classic remise), but his set up there looks a bit upmarket perhaps to care for a spider with warm start hiccups!.....though give him a call, maybe he is a normal down-to-earth alfisti!
 

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Discussion Starter #30 (Edited)
ah ok, Berlin....bit far from me

which workshop did you go to in Berlin? ask on the alfisti forum who they recommend.

I only heard of Capuozzo (classic remise), but his set up there looks a bit upmarket perhaps to care for a spider with warm start hiccups!

Your offer is more than generous, I might even come around to your area for that! I'll send you a PM!

For the Berlin Alfistis amongst us:
I went to Sarti in Tiergarten and Joachim Liebenau in Kreuzberg. I have heard better things about Joachimsthal in Tegel. I agree with your impression of Capuozzo, and that were confirmed when I went there to schedule an appointment once.

Regarding next steps, I will search the forum for tips on how to test all those components now.
 

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I was wondering if you have any recourse to get your money back since they didn't resolve the problem? You did the right thing coming to the BB and ask for help. My apology for coming off strong in my post, but I just went through my 91 spider that was totally screwed up. Spiderserie4 helped me sort out some of the issues. I just wanted to put some ideas out there of things to check. This is what we call a closed loop system. Everything has to be in order for it to run properly as it is all governed by air mixture, air flow, and resistances. The computer measures all of this and tells the injectors how long to fire. I would start by just doing some of the simple tests if you have an ohm meter. The tests will measure resistances to see if they are in the acceptable range. If the plugs are black, it is rich. I would check the AFM, and the Lambda sensor for starters if all the air checks are with out leaks. The in manifold temp sensor (blue plug) in the middle needs to be measured as well as it checks the water temperature. As I mentioned this goes bad and throws the whole system off.

As this is a starting issue, I would suspect fuel flow. Fuel pump in the tank, fuel filter plugged, fuel pressure regulator is leaking. My regulator was full of fuel. It made a great basketball shot into the trash bin. :D

Is there a plug that a diagnostic tool could be plugged into?
 

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Discussion Starter #33
After weeks of rain and little home-time, I am coming back to the repair now!

Two more updates before I attempt the series of tests: The car has trouble to keep a steady rpm, even with the foot on the gas (trying to keep a steady RPM and speed). It feels like someone repeatedly steps on the paddle.

I found two leaks: The hose pictured below has a leak, but I can't figure out the part number, nor what little cylindrically shaped thing it connects to. Does anyone know?



Also, the hose that connects to the coolant reservoir at the uppermost opening is not airtight. Does it have to be?
 

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Dom (SpiderSeries4) has just been diagnosing someone else's similar problems here.

The issue appears to have been resolved after finding a split in that same hose, I think.

Doms words:
Hey Jimmy if you mean the hose coming off the top of that little gold coloured metal canister, that's a good find!
That is the vacuum from the plenum (follow the hose and it will plug into a nipple on the plenum, no. 16 in diagram (well, it should do!) controlling the fuel pressure regulator (FPR)....now that hose maybe opening once in a while, sometimes less, sometimes more, will give all sorts of fuel pressure and uneven running problems.
 

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Discussion Starter #35
@AngloSpider and SpiderSeries4, this is exciting!

The linked thread says I need some generic vacuum hose (as this one is not sold specifically)?

Since my hose is leaking fuel from that split, I need a new FPR, as well? Any tip on where to best buy that from?
 

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Hi Goulet,
FPR: you want the one that look like in the photo, push on type.
alfricambi in germany does one (expensive)
Benzindruckregler Alfa Spider 115 2,0 i.e. Bj.90-93, 119,00 € -

cheaper might be to search the part number:
Bosch 0 280 160 758 (or 0280160758 depending how people write it, the former is the correct way)
I am pretty sure Bosch 0280160235 works as well, I have this on another S4 plenum that I have spare, and it looks original (the number corresponds to alfa 164)
or,
Alfa 60611308
The vacuum hose is O.D 8/9mm / I.D. 5mm - 20cms long (buy a meter, always useful!)
as you are in Germany this outta do it:
Unterdruckschlauch Silikonschlauch Unterdruck Schlauch LPG Turbo schwarz 5mm | eBay

Oh and thanks for the PM: sehr gerne!
 

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Discussion Starter #38 (Edited)
Bosch 0 280 160 758 (or 0280160758 depending how people write it, the former is the correct way)
I am pretty sure Bosch 0280160235 works as well, I have this on another S4 plenum that I have spare, and it looks original (the number corresponds to alfa 164)
Very interesting. I just checked the part number of the one that is in my Spider and it says 0 280 160 263. A little research suggests that one puts out 3.5 Bar. Perhaps that is why the trouble started in the first place?

Anyway, the 0 280 160 758 seems hard to get hold of, so I will order this 0 280 160 235 now.

 

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the bosch 263 is from the old L-Jetronic Porsche 944 range, actually has 3,8 bar according to Bosch.
 

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any news?
car running again?
 
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