[miami592]

Today I was checking that all my connections were tight and right. In the process I came to notice that the fuel injector closest to the fire wall is able to move fairly easily.

Is this normal. The other three do not move at all.

If this is not normal, could this lead to a "false air" rich running issue?

Thanks in advance-M5

 

[Gubi]

Definitely not normal. There should be a screw holding it down that may be loose. Also possible the PO stripped the threads...

 

[Gubi]

To clarify: it's a couple of Allen bolts with a bracket for each injector.

 

[miami592]

To clarify: it's a couple of Allen bolts with a bracket for each injector.

The bracket and Allan bolts are there and appear tight. I am just able to "twist" the injector in its spot.

 

[vf31rhill]

The injector sits atop a seal. These seals appear to be some sort of rubber. Your seal has hardened and shrunk, allowing the injector to move on the seal. Definately not right. You might as well order up a set of new seals and replace all of them, since your spider is of an age where all rubber components start to harden and fail (rubber wise). The seals are not very expensive, but the problem is that the rubber hose connectors on top of the injectors will also be starting to harden and be difficult to get off the fuel rail. (also hard to get back on). You should do one of two things.

1. remove all the injectors complete with the fuel rail as an assembly. replace all the injector seals, and replace the injector/rail assembly. This will save you from having problems removing and replacing the injectors from the rail.

2. Remove all the injectors from the intake manifold and the rail and send them off to have them rebuilt complete with new top hoses (which attach the injector to the rail.
The rebuilt injectors will be returned to you with new bottom seals. Then reassemble the injector/rail assembly. Sprule Injection Service can do this rebuilding of the injectors for you. When I had mine done a couple of years ago, the whole thing cost a little under $200 if I am remembering correctly.

Be sure to keep everything clean and don't let any foreign objects fall into the injector holes while you are doing this work. While your injectors are out of the intake manifold, plug the injector holes with paper or cloth to keep everything clean while the injectors are out being rebuilt.

Robert

 

[rogerspeed]

you can change the seals without overhauling the rail or removing the injectors from the lines, after you have remove the rack with the injectors attached. You can also change one or all of the injectors yourself. You can either use the factory crimp system (cheaper for the OEM when building the car but more difficult at home) or use fuel injection clamps.
Rockauto among other sell the injectors

 

[miami592]

Thanks all!

Where might I find these seals for an '89 S3?

M5

 

[ghnl]

The injectors are sort of rubber mounted so they might wiggle a little bit. But certainly not easily.

O-ring #7 fits over the tip of the injector and fits into a hole in the intake plenum. Rubber gasket #5 fits onto the body of the injector and 'Seeger Ring' #6 (what we'd call a circlip) fits just below the rubber gasket. Flange #4 is screwed into the intake by the aforementioned allen head screws and it then presses down onto the rubber gasket (prevented from slipping off the injector by the circlip).

Thus, it is possible either the rubber gasket has perished or the circlip is not in place.

 

[miami592]

I can see the flange (4) and rubber ring(5), but there is just a bit of distance between them. The other rings are held tight by the flange.

I've a feeling that either the seeger ring(6) or O-ring(7) my either be missing or fragged.

Two questions, 1- can a wiggly injector cause a false air rich issue and 2- where can one obtain new new seeger & O-rings?

I may not be looking in the right spots on IAP or Centerline websites.

Thanks for helping me through uncharted territory-M5

 

[ghnl]

Yes, a faulty/missing O-ring can cause false air issues.

The circlip is likely a standard part (once you figure out the right size). And I have obtained kits with new seals (#7) & gaskets (#5). Now as to where I obtained them, that's a different question... Lemme ponder and see if any of my remaining brain cells can recall anything of value.

 

[miami592]

Bless you sir!

 

[ghnl]

Now this may sound crazy, but I think I once bought a set of seals from a local auto parts store by asking for FI seals for a mid-80's Cadillac V8 engine. And they had them in stock.

Centerline has the seals listed:



And so does IAP:

 

[vf31rhill]

You should be able to locate a set of new seals without much effort. But if you can't, I have a set of new seals I would sell for little money. I bought them to re-seal my own 88 quad, but ended up having Sprule rebuild all my injectors, including replacing the top hoses which attach the injector to the rail. Sprule sent me another set of seals, so I still have the set I originally bought. You can reach me at [email protected] if necessary.


Robert

 

[miami592]

Eric-OK. I saw those but didn't think they were the correct ones.

I also saw (based on your 80's caddy advice) that Autozone has them available for special order as well.

Thank goodness they are not made of unobtainium!

I suppose I'll replace the seals on the one first to see if that puts away my false air issue once and for all. If there is no Seeger ring on that one I'll pull and replace the seals on the next one over as well so as to have a model to bring with me to the hardware/autoparts store.

Robert- Thank you so much for the generous offer! If things go south I may have to take you up on that.

What an enjoyable pain in the @$$ this refreshing of a spider for the wife. Two steps forward, one step back. Eventually she'll (the spider) be to my (and her) liking!!-M5

 

[ghnl]

More pictures in this thread. Look closely and you can see the circlip/seeger ring. And what I think is a mis-shapen injector seal.

 

[alfaparticle]

When I replaced injector seals on my GTV6 I bought them from NAPA and they cross referenced them to the Bosch injectors.

 

[miami592]

Fortunately I was able to acquire a new set of seals locally.

Attached is a a video of just how much play is in the injector closest to the firewall (#4?). I shot it with the engine idling warm @950 rpm according to my new dwell tach.

I'm assuming it is easiest just to disconnect the fuel line from the fuel rail and remove the two Allan bolts holding the ring and it should lift right out.

Will there be much fuel pressure behind the rail or will it dissipate right away?

Thanks in advance-M5

 

[ghnl]

Unless you are planning to replace the fuel lines I don't think you need to remove them. As a matter of fact, removal will ruin them - they won't be re-usable.

 

[miami592]

Will there be enough room for me to pull the injector out if I leave the fuel line in place? There only seems to be about 2.5-3" of line from rail to injector. M-5

 

[miami592]

So I was able to pull out the injector. There was a plastic like cup left in the hole. I was able to pick it out and it looks a bit chewed up. (See Pics)

I'm hoping the small rubber washer will make a difference.