[Grant]

I like my ride with my mods listed below, but after driving an early model S14 at the track with Stance coilovers (and helper springs) the ride isn't even jarring, and the grip on the track was amazing. The car was setup for drift but it still gripped like hell.

So I'm wondering, for those of you using RSR coilovers, do you think it can make a 75/Milano develop the kinds of grip that a more modern car with relatively stiff spring rates can? I'm realizing that I want stiffer rates but I don't know if it is worth the hastle to get some 30mm torsion bars from another country when Ron offers the whole setup. When you guys are driving your RSR cars on the track, can you keep up with other well driven cars (S14, E36, E30, WRX, Evo, etc) in the turns? I think that the narrow track of the Milano and the lack of space to put a wide tire would put it at a disadvantage compared to the other hot cars out there. Maybe I should use a different platform to go time trialing in?

Kind of a broad question, but I'd like to see what some of you have to say about this. Thanks!

 

[75evo]

What about tires? Your tires aren't very good. Were the S14's tires good? Before you go with the RSR suspension, I think you should address the bumper and battery issue. Then go time trialling with AROSC, see what times you turn and then decide if you want to go with the RSR suspension mods.

Larry's ex-GTV6 could keep up with a WRX in the turns and it had very basic mods much in terms of suspension. In fact I was in his car when we were racing with a WRX. I guess we need AR4me and Potenziato to go to the track to see how fast their cars are compared with the later offerings.

The other issue is with chassis stiffness, in which case, it's not even worth talking about with the stock Milanos.

Fender wise, there is this guy in South San Jose who has a fender rolling tool we can rent. I think 225/45/16s should be no problems with some minor mods to the fenders. If you're on a budget

 

[Grant]

Interesting story about Larry's car. I think the GTV-6 has a better chance because the CG is lower, there's less wieght, the car feels stiffer, and there's a bit more space in the fenders, no? The tires on my friends S14 were some bald Michelin tires in the front that were 235 width, and some cheapie tires that were like 225 in the rear, both on 17's. I'm going to mount some 225/45/16 ES100's I bought on ebay (try to mount i guess!) and see how it goes, but I think I'm going to be dissapointed with the grip, even though I know I'm running on a budget tire. I was goign to go for some Azenis this time but I thought I'd better wait until I have another set of wheels for track only.

Eh, we'll see. I'll mount these other tires and see how it goes. I think your 712's are finally bald too, so I think that's probably making the car feel worse than it should.

 

[91spiderNV]

My stock suspension '87 Milano Verde has no problem keeing up in the turns with the newer cars since I'm using Toyo RA1's or Hoosier R6's. Tires will make up for stiffer suspension, plus driver experience. After the turns is when I say bye bye to the corvettes since I have 1/2 the horsepower. Miata's I can stay with.

If you're time trialing, I hope you're not using street tires.

 

[giuliettaevo]

Ron races Milanos on the nurburgring with his kit on. those milanos can keep up with porsches... My friend drove a Subaru WRX Sti 2006 model and was overtaken by a Milano in the corner! The v6 handles worse as the 4 cylinder model because off the heavier nose but it is still a very good trackcar.

 

[JJ75]

The Rsr setup is great for the 2liter, the balance is very good and the well known understeer is like gone out the window. For the V6 it is another story, It understeers quite alot and it is not even close to the handeling of the twin spark.
Totally agree with 75 evo. To compare 2 setups you have to have the same tires. You could go very fast with a stock suspension car on good tires, but you will never go fast with a good suspension setup with bad tires.

We had a race with my stock Mitsubishi colt 1,5 with Toyo R888 against my friends BMW 320 with a fully adjustable coilover setup and 18"wheels with cheep Aurora compound. He was not even close to catch up in the turns, event though his car was very low and stiff.

 

[Grant]

A lot of people are telling me to man up and get some tires. But I'd first rather have a car that handles and grips well (has potential to grip then?) before I blow $700 on tires. Tires can be put on at any time too. I don't want to invest in R-compounds until I'm sure I want to track an Alfa, rather than another car.

So I'm basically asking if coilovers will make the car competetive with what else is out there on track days.

 

[91spiderNV]

Spend $2000 on coil overs and then skimp out on R compound tires? Messing with suspensions modifications is a lot of fun to try to shave seconds off lap times but without decent track tires your lap times will always suffer. A decent set of used Toyo Ra1's are available on ebay on a regular basis for $150-$200. They should last for at least 2-3 track sessions. With the coil overs and track tires your Verde will be competitive with BMW E30's, and other older 6 cylinder cars in your time trial class, even older Porches when driving skills improve.

 

[Potenziato]

I'm sure you'll do better with track tires of course in terms of ultimate grip. However, I kinda agree with Grant that you should be able to get good grip running street tires and a good well sorted out suspension.

What's the point of R compund tires if the car is rolling on the door handles to begin with.

The track tires of course benefit even more from increased neg. camber and stiffer settings.

 

[91spiderNV]

Here's two photos of my Milano Verde in desperate need of coil overs or a big front antisway bar. I can keep up with the corvette in the turns but this turn leads to a long straight away and the corvette is one. I have Toyo Ra1 R compound tires if I didn't I'd be sliding all over with street tires.

No doubt coil overs would definitely be worth the cost for track time trials/racing, plus sway bars, replace bushings.....etc.

 

[nizam]

What's the point of R compund tires if the car is rolling on the door handles to begin with.

I used to think that, until I put R compounds on my (then) stock suspension car. When I gained four seconds on the Willow Springs big track, I rethought my strategy.

Sure, it's nice to have a car that's composed and all that (I have that now), but even back when it was stock - scraping on door handles as we proverbially put it - I could still keep up, and in some cases, pass "faster" cars that couldn't hold the line due to poor tire choice.

Grant - it's your money, so do as you please. The simple fact is, even with a good setup and bad tires, you ain't gonna get the results you want. I guess the ultimate year-to-year lesson is, $$$ = speed. Our fathers and grandfathers ran into similar paradigms ever since the automobile was invented

 

[Gabor K.]

The 75 has a disadvantage by being 10cm taller and 11 cm longer between the wheelbase, than the GTV6 and then the weight. Also for a track car it has two surplus doors. However it has the same chassis as the GTV6 and responds to tuning in the same positive way. To get good results i agree with others here there is no other way to go than all the way, otherwise the full effect of the modifications will not show. Good dampers will be masked by bad tires etc. So buy the full RSR kit and change the whole suspension system, its very good! If you are going full race then even drop the torsion bars and go full coilover. 225/45 16 sport/R tires (RE-55S) from for instance Bridgestone work very well on front and rear of the GTV6 so it should be OK on the 75 too, I would recommend it.

By the way the Jap-car owners love this tire,so why let them have the advantage

 

[giuliettaevo]

check out www.intraxracing.nl
the owner of this company races a 75/milano 1.5TS Turbo with 360 bhp... he knows all there is to know about the suspensionsystem as used on the 75. they can make anything you want...

 

[Grant]

Giulietta,

Have you used their stuff before? There product range looks pretty pricey, but thanks for showing me another alternative to RSR.

So some people here feel a Milano can be made to keep up with newer machinery with a reasonable amount of money? And don't get me wrong, a dedicated set of wheels and tires will be bought, but I don't want to buy alfa specific wheels (and tires for that matter as they would be smaller than what I could run on another chassis) if I can only be competetive in Alfa only events you know?

Nizam said it right I think though, $$$ does equal speed, but Alfas have a multiple of 0.5 thrown somewhere into that equation I think...

 

[Grant]

PS, Z, when you're ready to get those rotors machined, let me know. I need to buy another rotor still.

 

[Potenziato]

I thought that the RS Racing stuff was made by Intraxx. The pictures on the Intraxx sight look like the more expensive adjustable RS Racing stuff.

 

[75evo]

Grant,

You need a point of reference. Go to Willow Springs this October and tell us the result, then we can compare all the Milanos which went to Willow Springs, their times and modifications. In fact AROSC's Time Trial website has times of both Alfas and non-Alfas, so you can get a rough idea of what the Milano can do.

 

[junglejustice]

So, what happened to "RSR is a band-aid" and "drop spindles are the cure"...?

Just asking.

Look, the RSR setup is amazing. Period. Just step up. Tires first, then suspension - suspension first, then tires - doesn't matter. Do drop-spindles, then tires and then suspension - still doesn't matter.

At the end of the day, you have to address the roll and the weak spring-rates! (Somebody once said VERY early on; "...these cars need a great deal of spring to come around..."

 

[Grant]

Yeah Jon, I think the shankle spring rates are far too soft. I'd stay with torsion bars and springs but there is no supplier of 30mm stuff in the states and after importing them I'm approaching the cost of Ron's kit.

I think 75evo is right though, I should go to the track first and see how it does. I just know that on the tighter stuff my car gets spanked.

Hey, what do you do when the shocks blow? Do you send them back to Ron or can they be rebuilt in the states?

Jon, you should bring your Verde down to an AROSC race at Buttonwillow or something. It's not TOO far for a once a year thing

 

[nizam]

Jon, you should bring your Verde down to an AROSC race at Buttonwillow or something. It's not TOO far for a once a year thing

I'd like to see Louis' car in action too ... Buttonwillow is a good track for both fast and slow turns. The runoff is great too incase you forget to slow down enough