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Discussion Starter #1 (Edited)
Good morning all,
I've been a member here for a few years, I've owned 76 and newer Alfas.. an Alfetta, a 164LS and a GTV6. I've never owned a 105/115 Spider.

I made a new elderly Alfa pal here in town and he has a 71 Duetto that's been sitting in dry storage for "several years".. he says the "brakes and clutch are frozen" and I've offered to help him get it going. Our initial goal is just to get it rolling so we can move it around, maybe tow it to a garage or my house, somewhere with more tools and equipment than he has. But.. One step at a time... He is not an online person so...

What manual(s) would you all recommend we get our hands on to start with?
I assume ample parts are available online from the "usual suspects" of suppliers.

I'll pack up a bag of my favorite metric Alfa tools and head over to his garage one of these days.. and maybe you can help me think ahead about what I'm dealing with..

Frozen brakes; I assume it has developed rust between the rotors and brake pads, so if I open the bleed screws, I can back off the pads and get it rolling.. would there be other reasons they are frozen?

Frozen clutch: If the clutch is "frozen" or inoperable, I assume we can still safely pull the shifter into Neutral to roll the car around. There can't be a problem doing that, right? I assume the clutch system is hydraulic, with MC & slave cylinder, dried up seals that have lost ability to hold pressure.. Still, we could try bleeding the system, seeing if it'll hold any pressure. I assume we should just go ahead and replace the MC and slave?

If we get it rolling, I think we could tow it with the rear wheels on a dolly, and let the front wheels roll on the ground... any concerns with that? ...streets are OK around here, but is the front low and we risk striking the nose on the pavement?

No idea what engine or fuel delivery system it has, probably carbs, a 1300 or 1600 engine? Rebuild carbs I can do. Do the engines tend to get rust in the cylinders? Hard to answer that question maybe. I can borescope the cylinders, squirt oil in them, turn the engine over by hand, then try rolling it in high gear... Empty the fuel tank, flush and new filters and fluids..

Cosmetically, he says it's just dusty and dirty, no significant body rust.
Electrically, no idea what to expect..

Thank you for any rookie "check this first" kind of advice unique to the Duetto..

Grazie,
- Art
 

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Hi there, for manuals I would recommend a Cardisc, then maybe a Braden bible. See if you can get a papajam wiring diagram. If it's a short term thing you could probably just use the BB, still get the wiring diagram.
Brakes, can you give it a tug on dry pavement? Looking through the wheels, do the brakes look super rusted?
Clutch, I've always been able to free these up just with the car running. Warm the car up, then shut it off, hope there is a nearby vacant road, push out there, get pointed in the right direction (up hill if you can), car in first, start the car with the clutch in (keep the clutch in the whole time), the car will move as soon as you turn the starter, if it doesn't free up just by starting you now have to push all three pedals. With the clutch still in, goose the gas, if that doesn't work then goose the gas with the brakes on also. It sounds like a bigger procedure than it is, should take all of 10 seconds tops.

Total kudos to you for getting involved. Hope it's straight forward for you.

Depends on the condition of things, if it's really dry inside storage, maybe pop the plugs out and squirt and little oil down there to help with initial movement. If it's a stock US car, a 71 would be a 1750 Spica engine. Smell the dipstick for fuel, take the baro capsule out (handle delicately while removed) and carefully dip something down there and smell for gas. If you have a syringe with a 6" hose, suck out everything in that cavity and pour some new oil in there.

A dolly should be fine.

Looking forward to seeing pictures... :)

Cheers,
 

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Discussion Starter #5
Perfect... thank you.
I ordered a gently used copy for $23.50! .. and so the saga begins. :)
- Art
 

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Clutch, I've always been able to free these up just with the car running. Warm the car up, then shut it off, hope there is a nearby vacant road, push out there, get pointed in the right direction (up hill if you can), car in first, start the car with the clutch in (keep the clutch in the whole time), the car will move as soon as you turn the starter, if it doesn't free up just by starting you now have to push all three pedals. With the clutch still in, goose the gas, if that doesn't work then goose the gas with the brakes on also. It sounds like a bigger procedure than it is, should take all of 10 seconds tops.
Yup, that's the way to do it on a running, stopping car. But with frozen brakes and an engine that hasn't been started in some time, this procedure may have to wait. But sure, you can put the car into neutral and push it around with no damage.

76Satisfaction said:
Frozen brakes; I assume it has developed rust between the rotors and brake pads, so if I open the bleed screws, I can back off the pads and get it rolling.. would there be other reasons they are frozen?
Well, you can try cracking the bleed screw. But what you may have are caliper cylinders that have frozen to their seals, preventing the pads from retracting. I don't have a quick solution; I'd begin by putting the suspension on secure jackstands, pulling the wheels and going to work. Gently prying them with a screwdriver may not get them to budge; this may require some caveman tactics.

Is the car a roundtail or a squaretail? A '71 would be a squaretail. Here in the US, the term "Duetto" is generally only applied to roundtail Alfa spiders, though others have pointed out that "Duetto" is more broadly applied in Europe.
 

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Discussion Starter #7
Yup, that's the way to do it on a running, stopping car. But with frozen brakes and an engine that hasn't been started in some time, this procedure may have to wait. But sure, you can put the car into neutral and push it around with no damage.



Well, you can try cracking the bleed screw. But what you may have are caliper cylinders that have frozen to their seals, preventing the pads from retracting. I don't have a quick solution; I'd begin by putting the suspension on secure jackstands, pulling the wheels and going to work. Gently prying them with a screwdriver may not get them to budge; this may require some caveman tactics.

Is the car a roundtail or a squaretail? A '71 would be a squaretail. Here in the US, the term "Duetto" is generally only applied to roundtail Alfa spiders, though others have pointed out that "Duetto" is more broadly applied in Europe.
Thanks, AlfaJay and vintagemilano... I bet it's a square tail.
I haven't seen it yet, and I surfed around Wiki to educate myself and the photos show 71's as square tail. So yeah - not what would be called a 'Duetto'. But who knows, maybe he got the model year wrong.
Thanks for the clutch advice, I think I get it. The clutch plate is more likely stuck to the flywheel than the MC or slave not working, and it's a matter of getting some torque through there to get them to separate. OK. Assuming we can shift to Neutral, we won't try unsticking it until the engine is checked and freely rotating.

The frozen brakes I'm hoping the pads retracted after he parked the car last, before they "froze" in place. It sounds awful if the pistons are stuck with pads pushed against the rotors. At least the fronts should have retracted when parked, then it depends if the handbrake was set, maybe it's "only" the rears that are actually frozen from a stuck handbrake or rear pistons stuck in their bore.. That doesn't sound like fun either way. I'll bring enough caveman tools and see what's needed to free the brakes. If no brakes can be unfrozen, anyone care to suggest what our worst case scenario is for dealing with it? Pull the spindle nuts, unbolt the calipers and pull the hub and brake assembly off?

The worst case scenario I ever witnessed was a '69 Camaro we had to get out of a concrete garage in an hour, with everything frozen.. We bought 12 jugs of laundry detergent and "greased" two paths between the car and the flatbed, one path for each tire, and used the winch to drag the entire frozen car on its flat tires across the driveway and up on the flatbed. That car is running well today over in East Greenbush, NY.

I digress.
- Art
 

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The clutch plate is more likely stuck to the flywheel than the MC or slave not working, and it's a matter of getting some torque through there to get them to separate.
Yup. Clutch disks get stuck to the pressure plate and flywheel all the time when a cars sits for an extended period. That one won't be hard to fix once the engine is running and car's brakes work.

The frozen brakes I'm hoping the pads retracted after he parked the car last, before they "froze" in place. It sounds awful if the pistons are stuck with pads pushed against the rotors. At least the fronts should have retracted when parked, then it depends if the handbrake was set, maybe it's "only" the rears that are actually frozen from a stuck handbrake or rear pistons stuck in their bore..
Uh, sorry, but Alfas use a separate set of little brake shoes for the parking brake. So pulling on the parking brake wouldn't cause the rear disk brake calipers to act up. You'll probably be able to either muscle the pistons back in or else remove the pad retention hardware and yank the pads out past the ridge on the edge of the disk. But the process won't be pretty.
 

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Hey, if this has sat long enough, like my spider, all calipers are going to need rebuild. You can just unbolt em and put on your bench. Use a piece of tubing over the brake line when disconnected with a clamp on the end or a bolt . Problem solved until you can get to it. Brakes and steering should be the very thing to fix.
 

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Discussion Starter #11
Thanks for the link to the manuals on Duettoinfo, and Goats -
Thanks for the heads up on the parking brake and its separate shoes.

OK, there are some options and I'll just wait and see what the situation is;
  • Unbolting and pulling the calipers off to free up the rotors and hubs sounds easy, but in my humble experience, that job can be a PITA. But I see what you suggest - just muscle the pistons and pads away from the rotor, and pull the calipers off. Once the calipers are off, I can even leave the brake hoses connected and just use some wire to hang the calipers out of the way - Just to get the car rolling ASAP.
  • Or pull the pads out, over the rotor's ridge if they come free.. maybe I can fabricate a quick pad-removal tool as shown in the manual.
I'll find out more some time after the 13th, I'm busy with other stuff until then.
- Art
 

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If where the car is happens to be on or very close to dry concrete or pavement I would look through the wheels and see how rusty the discs are. Might be worth giving the car a tug with another car to crack them loose.
 
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