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1969 Alfa Spider 1750 veloce.
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Discussion Starter #1
Hello Alfisti, I have recently bought and installed a RML electronic dizzy from IAP.According to the instructions enclosed, the green wire (ignition switch) connects to the + side of the bosch blue coil. From the dizzy, the red wire to the "+" side of the coil and the black to the neg side of the coil. I have done this and viola -no spark. The old MArelli points dizzy was working earlier today. Any ideas? It appears that i'm not getting any spark. I am not familiar on how to check the voltage at the coil although i put a meter on it and with the key turned to avvia-no voltage. if anyone out there has one of these bad boys i would appreciate any thoughts
Thx in advance.
 

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Did you remove and tape off the heavy white wire from the negative post of the original coil?

I noticed that the RML rotor is about 45deg off from the oil pump key vs. original, so it turned out not to be a drop in replacement. First time, no spark. Found TDC on #1, marked position of #1 lead on the body of the RML, then rotated the body until the mark was centered on the rotor at TDC. Close enough to start and adjust timing.
 

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1969 Alfa Spider 1750 veloce.
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Discussion Starter #3
Thanks for the reply. I did all that you had mentioned to no avail. I did however put the old points one in and 1 turn of the key and it started. The instructions included said that the 70's years had 2 wires going to the dizzy from the ignition switch green and blk/green I have only a green wire. *** ,is the dizzy no good? Any idea how i could bench test it? I also tried emailing the RML guy and have not received a reply yet. ****e, i may have to go BACK to points...lol
 

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1966-2013
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Two wires off the switch, but one to the coil.
The second wire from the switch went to the ballast resistor, which has to be worked around/bypassed in accordance with the instructions.
Just leaving the ballast wire unhooked will result in no spark during cranking, though I imagine the car could be push started with the key in the run position.
 

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1969 Alfa Spider 1750 veloce.
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Discussion Starter #5
Two wires off the switch, but one to the coil.
The second wire from the switch went to the ballast resistor, which has to be worked around/bypassed in accordance with the instructions.
Just leaving the ballast wire unhooked will result in no spark during cranking, though I imagine the car could be push started with the key in the run position.
Ok ,but I had only 1 wire at the coil to begin with. The wiring diagram for the car shows only 2 wires at the coil, 1 to the switch and 1 to the dizzy. Are the 3 wires for later models? I took a peak at the starter solenoid and it looks as though there was another wire coming off there but that has been cut by the po. Question, why does the E.I need these 2 but the points dizzy need 1, or am i wrong?
 

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1966-2013
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I don't think the starter solinoid has anything to do with it.

You need to chase the ignition switch wires from the switch, or look at the cool papajam wiring diagram you have, (right?), and IIRC connect the ballast service wire from the switch directly to the coil bypassing the ballast device along the way.

This will activate the coil in both the run and start position (which I think you're lacking currently) and as the blue coil is internally ballasted it should give fire during the start cycle.
 

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1969 Alfa Spider 1750 veloce.
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Discussion Starter #7
Tifosi, i read somewhere on the bb that a wire comes off the solenoid. My wiring diagram is not papajams, its a proposers, but the switch has 6 wires coming from it, 2 are for the chime and light switches, a red wire to the fuse box,a gray to fuse box-fuel pump ,green to coil and black to starter-which than is wired to a cold start solenoid.this last wire i don't see-is this what you are referring to? If so, how can I re-wire this? Can i take off from the starter solenoid? confused...
 

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1966-2013
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If you tie the starter solinoid to the coil, it'll end up with the engine cranking continuously whenever there is power to the coil.

EG:
1) Turn the key from off to start, power goes to coil and solinoid, engine cranks, plugs (presumably) fire.
2) Turn the key from off to on, coil has power so starter solinoid activates and starts cranking the engine and plugs (presumably) fire.
3) Turn key from off to start, and #1 occurs, then release key to run position and #2 occurs. As in the starter doesn't stop cranking when the key is released.

#1 is desirable.
#2 & #3 on the other hand are flat out screwed up, but all three will occur if the coil and starter solinoid are tied directly to each other.
'Presumably' implying the ignition is functioning correctly.

Might better wait 'til tomorrow for more info as I'm sure there's more than a couple folks who are way more familiar with your wiring than I am.
 

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1969 Alfa Spider 1750 veloce.
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Discussion Starter #9
yeah Tifo that doesn't sound right. does anyone out there know where that other wire should be? i found 2 disconnected wires in the engine bay-passenfer side. 1 is white with blue that i believe to be fuel solenoid from the spica it runs to fuse 6. the other is white and i think is fuel pressure, also left over from the spica. the ignition switch has red , brown and black wires. that is all. i would really like to drive her today as it it a nice one, so any help would be appreciated.
 

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Discussion Starter #10
testing the circuits

i received a reply from Ric at rml.He is asking what the primary resistance at the coil is.How to check? he also asks that when i looked for spark, did i check to see a primary signal at the negative side of the coil.Again, how is this checked? CAn anyone tell me how to test these?

FYI Tifo, he says that the wiring is correct....?:confused:
 

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1969 Alfa Spider 1750 veloce.
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Discussion Starter #12
Primary is measured between + and - terminals of coil.
Secondary is measured between - terminal and tower.
Is the resistance measured during cranking? With the key on or off?
Also what is the tower...sorry for the ignorance:eek:
 

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I'd say that since you're running fine with the original distributor installed there's no point troubleshooting the coil, it's working. The problem is most likely with your new fangled distributor. The only difference is that it has an electronic trigger rather than mechanical breaker points. It still has to open the primary circuit to collapse the field in the coil and deliver the spark. So my guess is either the RML is not working or it's not getting a ground so you are never getting current through the primary circuit to begin with.

It sounds like your SPICA has been removed? There are only two wires to the SPICA pump. One is for the fuel cutoff which is just 12 volts that is controlled by the microswitch. The other is directly from the starter solenoid to the cold start solenoid which gets 12 volts when the starter is engaged and cranking.

My car is a '72. The ballast resistor was disconnected many years ago and I've never had any issues with it. I have only one wire from ignition switch to coil and that is the green and black one which is connected to the B+ terminal. The other terminal is connected to the breaker points.

When the points open (break) the primary field collapses and induces the high tension into the secondary winding which should be right at the time the rotor is aligned with the post on the distributor cap that is connected to the plug you want to fire. It's pretty simple and the RML is only different in how it makes and breaks that primary circuit.
 

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Discussion Starter #15
I'd say that since you're running fine with the original distributor installed there's no point troubleshooting the coil, it's working. The problem is most likely with your new fangled distributor. The only difference is that it has an electronic trigger rather than mechanical breaker points. It still has to open the primary circuit to collapse the field in the coil and deliver the spark. So my guess is either the RML is not working or it's not getting a ground so you are never getting current through the primary circuit to begin with.

It sounds like your SPICA has been removed? There are only two wires to the SPICA pump. One is for the fuel cutoff which is just 12 volts that is controlled by the microswitch. The other is directly from the starter solenoid to the cold start solenoid which gets 12 volts when the starter is engaged and cranking.

My car is a '72. The ballast resistor was disconnected many years ago and I've never had any issues with it. I have only one wire from ignition switch to coil and that is the green and black one which is connected to the B+ terminal. The other terminal is connected to the breaker points.

When the points open (break) the primary field collapses and induces the high tension into the secondary winding which should be right at the time the rotor is aligned with the post on the distributor cap that is connected to the plug you want to fire. It's pretty simple and the RML is only different in how it makes and breaks that primary circuit.
Thanks for the reply. I guess that Im going off of the instruction that came with the dizzy, saying what Tifosi said a few post above, that basically current is required to the dizzy while the ignition is switched to run and start, thats what the second green wire running to the coil is all about. I think that the later s2 cars had that, perhaps 1975 and up? Whatever the case, i was told to run a few tests at the coil perhaps to see if the circuit is grounded as you suggest.The thing is that the points dizzy works ok, except for the advance which i could never get to be consistent at 5000 rpm with the strobe. Also the idle circuit wont lean out anymore than i have set at now, which is 5+ turns out as opposed to the standard 3 turns. Im hoping that a cleaner running spark thats more consistent will help in both cases...
 

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Like I said, if it all works fine with the original distributor installed then stop wasting time troubleshooting the coil and ignition wires, they are working. Your problem is with the new distributor. Either you have it hooked up wrong or the module is fried. You've got the red wire from the RML hooked to the B+ terminal on the coil right - same spot the green ignition wire is hooked to?

As for the idle mixture - do you still have the SPICA installed or has it been converted to carbs? If SPICA then it could be any one of several things from thermostatic actuator to master mixture setting that could be giving you an overall rich mixture.
 

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Discussion Starter #17
Hey all, I ran a few tests. I'm not sure of the results however. I ran the ohmmeter to the pos and neg sides of the coil respectively. With the meter at 200, the reading was 3.1.
When I tried to read the secondary resistnace( i place a screwdriver in the coil tower) and attached the meter leads to the neg side of the coil and the screwdriver. The reading was nill. when i switched the ohmmeter to 200k, the reading was 10.5. IS this ok? Also with the leads attached to pos and neg at the coil,I cranked the engine and the voltage was low- 0.1ish....
 

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RML Ignition disposition?

Hmmmm.

Talk about a hanging chad!

Been working on "replacement VDC" effort to get original IECU's working properly with the L-Jet but (don't tell anyone :)) starting to explore all-electronic distributor options (RML and 123Electronics). Came across your tale of woe and wondering how things finally worked out :confused:.

Best wishes.
 
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