Alfa Romeo Forums banner

1 - 20 of 23 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
67 Posts
Discussion Starter #1
I am in process of a ground up restore of my 59 102 spider. I am taking the opportunity to rewire it. Does anybody know of a good source of period wire and connectors?

Regards,
Erik
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
9,537 Posts
Your best option is to send the whole wiring harness to AlfaBB member Lionel Velez, who will make an exact copy of it (see his web page here). He needs the original harness because there are subtle differences in the wiring.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
67 Posts
Discussion Starter #3
Thank you for your reply. I know this might be a dumb move but I am trying to do the entire restore minus the re-chrome work, myself. Then I will be able to truly say I restored my 59. I know I have found(on line) a place in Vermont or something, that sold connectors and wire that looked correct, but I can't seem to find them now.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
9,537 Posts
Hats off to what undoubtedly is a big project!

I can't point you to any specific supplier for the correct wiring components, but British Wiring may have what you need. Make sure you the bullet connectors are the proper size and shape, as subtle differences may lead to intermittent contacts down the road. Also, make sure you invest in a proper crimp tool.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
67 Posts
Discussion Starter #5
Thank you for the lead. I will post pictures as I progress.

Regards,
Erik
 

·
Push hard and live
Joined
·
10,321 Posts
Erik,

I suspect you have found my lengthy section covering the restoration of my 1959 102. I will be picking it up from the upholsterers in two weeks, and apart from a few minor items, it will be done.

In my opinion there are some things it makes no sense to do yourself. You won't actually mix your own paint, you'll buy it pre-mixed. You won't make your own head gaskets (although other gaskets may require hand-manufacture). So, it is a matter of where you draw the line.

If you want a presentable result, have Lionel do your harness. There may be less expensive harnesses available, but his will be a dead-on match to your car and won't detract from the final appearance. I assure you, you will spend far more money just searching for the right wire and connectors than the price he will charge you, and it won't be as attractive as his work. There's something to be said for a harness that has actually been assembled in a manner that the pre-bends are already in place and the bundle lays naturally where it is supposed to go.

What is your serial number?

Good luck. Pictures required.

Don
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
67 Posts
Discussion Starter #7
I agree absolutely Don, and I did not mean to sound ****y, or in any way detract from the amazing cars I have seen restored on this site, including yours. I am really excited at this stage in my restoration to do as much as possible myself. As I dismantled the car it was so great to see all the custom hand work and problem solving that the guys at Alfa Romeo did on these old cars. I have no illusions about my limitations, but I got an intact wire harness and this I can do.
My car is number 132, I can't figure out how to post pictures from my phone so I will share these later.

Regards,
Erik
 

·
Push hard and live
Joined
·
10,321 Posts
Erik,

I didn't take you as ****y at all. Of course, we all set our own goals. I had more than a few folks write to me when I had everything stripped off of mine and remark something along the lines of "are you out of your mind????!!!!!". Of course, they were completely right, but I went ahead with the full monty nonetheless.

Enjoy doing your harness. My personal view is that it will be so time consuming and annoying that it may deflate an otherwise worthy enthusiasm.

Let me know if you need anything.

Best,
Don
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
67 Posts
Discussion Starter #9
Ruedi,
Thanks for the lead to BritishWiring. It looks like they have exactly what I need.
I will be placing my order this week. On another electrical question has anyone (Don??) rebuilt a Marelli s73b? I can't find return springs, and I am not sure what weight springs to look for. Mine are very distorted.

Erik
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
167 Posts
Erik,

Just adding some info for you...

123 Ignition do a superb electronic distributer called the TUNE. You might want to go that route? It certainly will save all the common Points Distributer mechanical issues even a rebuilt one will throw up time after time.

Pertronix do an excellent electronic points replacement kit - Ignitor 1. The model you'd need for the S73B Marelli is the M143.
You will need to keep your spring advance mech and use their excellent Flame Thrower Coil. Bigger plug gap etc. MUCH more spark. (comes in black and chrome)

There are Bosch replacements for the Marelli's. I dont know the part number off-hand, but some say they are better in many ways than the Marelli (and the parts are easily found).

If you do find some springs, I'd love to know what sizes etc you can get hold of. I'd be keen for some too.

There's plenty of info around, parts too if you look hard enough. The BB is the very best place to ask for help. You'll find everything somewhere between Italy, Germany and the garages of the owners on this BB.

Hold on to your wallet :)
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
67 Posts
Discussion Starter #11
Thanks,
I did see some of the electronic options. I am torn between staying totally original and making changes, like an electronic distributer, webber carbs, rims, etc. One is I wouldn't know where to stop and the other is just at what point is it no longer a 59 spider. I really struggle with this.
Erik
 

·
Push hard and live
Joined
·
10,321 Posts
Erik,

Good luck in your philosophical contemplations about Alfa 102's. I have been encouraged by the fact that Alfas have a long tradition of custom building and modifications, but as you say, at some point it is just a bashed together bastard and no longer an Alfa. I doubt anyone would object to intelligently done Webers, wire wheels, and electronic ignition. I'm so thrilled with my Weber set up that I will do something with the distributor next just to see if it makes a bit more excitement up front.

It was interesting to see just how much my timing jumped around when I timed it. This is more likely to be the points doing undesired things than the advance springs, in my opinion. Thus, the Pertronix seems like a good way to go at a reasonable budget. The 123 might be the maximum effort, but at quite a price and with features that aren't necessary for this application.

I would not say that I actually rebuilt an S73B, although I had mine entirely apart on the bench. This helped me to paint it, mainly, and to give a good look-see. I had to hunt around for a good set of isolating washers for the carry-through stud, as my originals were shorting. I've got several extra distributors in various degrees of crustiness, so was able to scrounge what I needed. The shaft clearances all seemed OK, so it was mainly a matter of cleaning it up and reassembling it.

I have a Bosch distributor for this application, made in Brazil for the FNM. No one, including my old friend in the imported parts business and who is a Bosch warehouse distributor, can find info on it. I have not been able to locate a new cap, rotor, or condenser for it, although the points are the standard 01-011 as used in nearly everything from the mid-70's onward. I consider it to be a possibly inferior design due to the shaft/body configuration which could allow a destructive failure mode if the retaining circlip pops loose. Mine had a destroyed driven gear and missing circlip, suggesting this is just what happened to it. I think I know a solution to this, but have other higher priorities at the moment, and the S73B works just fine.

To your main question..... It is only money. To borrow from R. Crumb, it is better to have a deeply satisfying Alfa and no money, than money and no deeply satisfying Alfa.

D
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
78 Posts
I have a 123 ignition installed in my 74 GTV and like a lot how it works.

I would also go this way with my 102 if I was sure that it is as easy to install as on the GTV. It seems to me that the new 123\TUNE-4-R-V-D (Leen APK - 123\TUNE, Ducellier verdeler (Alfa, Citroën, Peugeot) could be the option for our 102s, (provided that he input shaft is the right one). Has anyone already gone through the process of installing and programming this thing? (I would like to spare myself the curve programming part)

Thanks!
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
67 Posts
Discussion Starter #14 (Edited)
123

I have read of people really liking the 123's, and from their website it seems that 123 performance is superior to Petronics, because the Petronics is still using a mechanical advance. And from 123's website it looks possible to send in my original Merelli and have 123 workings installed inside of it. That would be ideal if it all is true. I will contact 123 directly and see what they can do. $$$$ I bet it will cost $$$$.

Erik
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
4,082 Posts
Erik, Just in case you have not seen it papajam (at first I thought paperjam would be more likely) has beautifully colorized 102 wiring diagrams for FREE! I don't know if it is 100% acurate or not; I noticed that the ground wire from the last oil pan nut on the right side of the motor (facing forward) to the bottom of the car is not shown. Contact him with this link: http://www.alfabb.com/bb/forums/electrical-diagrams/21571-available-wiring-diagrams.html by email and request a copy and if you are nice he will email it to you. I had a buddy blow one up for the 2L and Duetto to the size of a place mat and print it on 100 lb paper and laminate it for me. Bella! Good luck, Mark
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
67 Posts
Discussion Starter #17
Thanks,
I already got a diagram from him it is very well done. I work at a company that uses large format printers for proofing and had the preflight group print out some 44 inch wide versions, they are perfect for restoring the harness.

Regards,
Erik
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
67 Posts
Discussion Starter #18
I had to clear up a few things before I started the wire harness but I thought a good picture to start with was the ugliest one. My plan is to use an 8 foot long piece of plywood to tack the harness down and keep it organized as I replace each wire one by one. The blue pieces of tape in the picture are tags for what the wire went to.
 

Attachments

·
Registered
Joined
·
67 Posts
Discussion Starter #19 (Edited)
Here are a few other pictures of the wire removal process. I was able to get the harness out intact except for the wire leading to the fuel pump that was so damaged that it fell apart (glad it never started a fire).
 

Attachments

·
Registered
Joined
·
67 Posts
Discussion Starter #20
And here are the pictures for the restoration of the Marelli s73b. Which was really just a cleanup, new points, polished the shaft, freed up the weights, oiled everything back up and put it all back together. I will put it aside and run with a 123 electronic ignition for driving around. If I do ever run with the marelli I will need to put new advance springs in it.
 

Attachments

1 - 20 of 23 Posts
Top