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This is clearly another layer of unobtainium for the car hobby and will cause more angst among the "correct chaulk mark and grease dob" crowd. :D It also creates another avenue for fakes. However, it is a good trend and I'm glad to see it taking hold. I always cringe when reading articles about a perfectly good, original classic being torn apart to create yet another hotrod.
 

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A few years ago while visiting a local restoration shop, a Lancia spider drove up and a couple of guys got out and went inside. The Lancia looked tired for its age. The guys come back out and saw me looking the car over. The car had just been found, fixed up and put back on the road. It was an all original car. The conversation was centered around how people were out seeking original cars, and following a lead he found this Lancia. He shared that he wasn't going to restore the car and try to keep the original patina as long as possible.

While visiting the Alfa museum in the late 70's, one of the remarkable traits of the cars on display is how many of the cars are original and driveable. You can look the car over, and imagine what it was like at that time in history.

The article has a good line..."cars are only original once".
 

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A few years ago while visiting a local restoration shop, a Lancia spider drove up and a couple of guys got out and went inside. The Lancia looked tired for its age. The guys come back out and saw me looking the car over. The car had just been found, fixed up and put back on the road. It was an all original car. The conversation was centered around how people were out seeking original cars, and following a lead he found this Lancia. He shared that he wasn't going to restore the car and try to keep the original patina as long as possible.
Unless the car was in great presentable condition like the XKSS (in the article) I simply don't get this view point.

Was the car sold original as a paint pealing old car? ... no!, it was brand new. I wonder what is wrong with returning an old car to brand new state, and then driving the heck out of it, adding your own patina :)

Also (note the XKSS was perfectly maintained mechanically ... no worries about replacing original oil, bushes, etc. there) the car originally drove well, had perfect shocks, etc. thus this status must be returned to before we can discuss what the car originally drove like ... ie. an old crapped out car does not drive like it once did.

The other thing (and why cars cannot be treated the same as other collectible items) is that steel rusts and ages, thus your old car will unlikely drive like it originally did unless properly restored. Even this Lancia, unless it has absolutely no rust will be tired, and thus not have the chassis rigidity it once had.
While visiting the Alfa museum in the late 70's, one of the remarkable traits of the cars on display is how many of the cars are original and driveable. You can look the car over, and imagine what it was like at that time in history.
Again I believe it is possible to restore a car to as original condition. The problem is too many people (on this site too) modify their cars and thus loose exactly what you just said is so cool, ie. "what it was like at that time in history". This is why I get passionate against modifying cars when you restore them.

I will be restoring my car to concours condition, showing it for as long as I can, and driving the heck out of it inbetween, even tracking it. I intend to add well over 100,000 miles to her as quickly as I can, and then add another, etc.

The problem with most restorations is that they:
1. Modify (including making old Ferraris perfectly straight and with perfect door gaps, etc.).
2. Are done poorly so the car can never be fully used afterwards, and drives like a piece of rubbish.
3. Are done for the wrong reasons, etc.

All this patina argument bollocks, is well bollocks. I guess it's just a reaction against people that do not use their classics ... they are not car enthusiasts. Car enthusiasts DRIVE their cars.

Our goals in my humle opinion should be to 100% return all our old cars to 100% perfect driving condition, with nice shiny paint, etc. ... and then enjoy them as cars :).
Pete
 

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A 100% trailer queen is a total waste IMO. Cars are meant to be driven. :)
 

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Restore it ?? No way!

A good topic!
Is it 'tatty' or does it have 'patina' ? 98% of our Alfas have either been restored to some level, or will be restored to the finish that the owner has in mind.

Its that other 2 % that we are talking about. Cars that are so original that you can see and feel how they were when new. Any restoration would wipe away all traces of how the cars really were. Some may not like it, but Alfas were never made to Rolls Royce standards and some examples should be preserved "as made".

My own 1600 S Giulia has "patina", but I wouldn't consider repainting her. Only the consumables ( tires, brake lines, fuel lines, etc. ) have been changed and she drives like a new car! AND she's no trailor queen! 100 mile round trips to 2 shows in the last year!
 

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Some cars need to be restrored because they are unuseable if they are not. The problem comes when it is a historic example. Especialy a race car which is only famous for its battles, If Ascari rubbed the fenders off and you fix it, you erase why that car is remembered.
If the car is a pile, what else are you going to do but fix it. If it is OK and worth something, it is new and origional only once, once you restore it it can be restored a million times with the same outcome. That is why preservation is harder than restoration.
 

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PSK, I was sharing a story of two men who sought out original cars, as it was related to this thread. I also gave my opinion...for what ever that is worth. I won't be saying any more...I have unsubscribed to this thread.
 

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PSK, I was sharing a story of two men who sought out original cars, as it was related to this thread. I also gave my opinion...for what ever that is worth. I won't be saying any more...I have unsubscribed to this thread.
PM sent :).

My view of classic or historic cars is to experience what they were originally like to drive, otherwise why the interest in the classic or historic car in the first place. Cars to me are not just the shape, etc. but the interaction with them.

I've read thousands of articles about driving old cars and IMO most writers make the mistake of not considering if indeed the car is a good example of what it would have been like. This is what I was trying to explain ... cars age and with obviously a few lucky exceptions I just cannot see how an old unrestored car can drive like it was new ... and to me what is the point of keeping it like that?

Anyway Chris, don't stop sharing your views because of this grumpy out spoken Kiwi :)
Pete
 

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PSK, I recieved your PM. :)
There is a sense of what it could have been like, to drive an old car, that is unrestored. The better the example, the better the over all imagination of what it was like. There was recently a Giulietta Berlina that was unrestored that came up for sale. It was a one owner car from Rome. The car was like it was from a time capsule it was so original . How nice it would have been to drive that car! Even the smell of the original materials albeit old, would have added to the experience. There are fewer and fewer barn finds as time goes by, and of those bar finds, few original examples that run as they were when parked. It would be an experience to appreciate an old unrestored car.
 

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It would be an experience to appreciate an old unrestored car.
Absolutely, that XKSS (and undoubtably the Lancia you mentioned) would be a blast. I must say I'd be very nervous with the XKSS ... I can see that car destined to be a garage queen :(.

Pete
 
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