Alfa Romeo Forums banner

1 - 12 of 12 Posts

·
Registered
Black 1991 - 164L
Joined
·
38 Posts
Discussion Starter #1
I am sorry if somewhere this has been answered before but I have searched this forum and I cannot find an answer to my wiring problem.

I have a 1991 164L that Imam working on. I am trying to repair the mess the prior owner made of the engine cooling fan system. At the front of the engine bay on the left side there is a panel of relays that from Steve’s maintenance tips I have identified as the fuel supply pump relay, the ECU relay and the radiator fan high/low relays. The prior owner of my vehicle must have been trying to diagnose a cooling fan problem without reading though this forum. What he did is totally remove the fuel pump relay socket. It must have broken off when he was replacing a relay I can only guess. With the wires pulled out of the socket he clipped them directly to the bottom of the relay and taped it to bracket so it didn’t jiggle around.

I am going to replace the relay socket and repair all of this back to factory. I have already made arrangements to get a new socket and as long as they don’t fall through it should arrive in a few weeks. The issue I have is that when I pulled the relay off of these wires to replace the socket, I didn’t look at which tabs they slid onto at the bottom of the relay. My bad, I was just frustrated when I was working on it as there was a whole litany of other wiring snafus the prior owner had made and I just didn’t think to take a photo in the moment.

If anyone has a photo or can tell me which wire colors go to which tabs on the relay it would really help. I have attached some pictures to assist with what I am talking about.
1673504

1673505

1673506

1673507

This last photo is of the red stripe relay taken out. I assume this relay socket looks just like the fuel pump relay socket and I just included the picture for reference.
1673508
 

·
Premium Member
1991 164L
Joined
·
27,582 Posts
I am sorry if somewhere this has been answered before but I have searched this forum and I cannot find an answer to my wiring problem.

I have a 1991 164L that Imam working on. I am trying to repair the mess the prior owner made of the engine cooling fan system. At the front of the engine bay on the left side there is a panel of relays that from Steve’s maintenance tips I have identified as the fuel supply pump relay, the ECU relay and the radiator fan high/low relays. The prior owner of my vehicle must have been trying to diagnose a cooling fan problem without reading though this forum. What he did is totally remove the fuel pump relay socket. It must have broken off when he was replacing a relay I can only guess. With the wires pulled out of the socket he clipped them directly to the bottom of the relay and taped it to bracket so it didn’t jiggle around.

I am going to replace the relay socket and repair all of this back to factory. I have already made arrangements to get a new socket and as long as they don’t fall through it should arrive in a few weeks. The issue I have is that when I pulled the relay off of these wires to replace the socket, I didn’t look at which tabs they slid onto at the bottom of the relay. My bad, I was just frustrated when I was working on it as there was a whole litany of other wiring snafus the prior owner had made and I just didn’t think to take a photo in the moment.

If anyone has a photo or can tell me which wire colors go to which tabs on the relay it would really help. I have attached some pictures to assist with what I am talking about.
View attachment 1673504
View attachment 1673505
View attachment 1673506
View attachment 1673507
This last photo is of the red stripe relay taken out. I assume this relay socket looks just like the fuel pump relay socket and I just included the picture for reference.
View attachment 1673508
You may have to unwrap tape from wire harness to see if white wires hooked together become pink and see if there is a missing pink-white in there for fuel pump.
If the two "white" wires are not hooked together at common terminal and one of them is really pink-white it is for fuel pump and it goes to one of the pin 87s.


1. Org-Blk wire for O2 heater goes to one of the two pin 87s. 87/87a, either one OK
2. The two 12v power HOT with key on wires terminal if hooked together in one terminal from fuse F22 and ignition switch "white" wires hooked together of two different dimeters (really pink) goes to pin 30. Smaller wire goes on to pin 86 of red stripe motronic with diode relay S12b for ECU.
3. Gry-Blk ground wire goes to pin 85 that goes to S11 motronic ECU to ground fuel pump relay when engine turning/running.
4. Red wire goes to pin 86 which is power from Motronic red strip relay S12b.
5. ? Are you missing pink-white wire for fuel pump that goes to other pin 87?
 

·
Registered
Black 1991 - 164L
Joined
·
38 Posts
Discussion Starter #3
Thank you so much. I think the wires I referred to as white are actually pink. They are just very faded, and the one on the left as a faint white strip on it.
 

·
Premium Member
1991 164L
Joined
·
27,582 Posts
Thank you so much. I think the wires I referred to as white are actually pink. They are just very faded, and the one on the left as a faint white strip on it.
Then that pink-white one for fuel pump goes to one of the two 87 pins.
 

·
Registered
Black 1991 - 164L
Joined
·
38 Posts
Discussion Starter #5
Ok so update on this project. My car does not match that wiring. I recently had someone send me a new relay base with all the wires attached. The relay bases do not match those on my car and the wiring is different. The relay bases won’t even clip into my mounting plate. It’s like a very similar but totally different wiring.

On the one sent there are two pink wires that go into one terminal of the relay base just like Steve mentioned. My cars wiring does not have this. There are only 5 wires coming to the relay not 6. I pulled back the tape and there is still no wires. It also doesn’t look like there ever was two pink wires that went together on that terminal. I don’t believe it was cut I believe it was originally wired this way.

Mine is a 1991 model. Was there early models that were wired differently? If so does know how to wire this together and does anyone have a relay base that will fit my mounting panel?

I will send pictures of the issue in the morning. It just got too dark while I was working on the car to take any decent photos.
 

·
Premium Member
1991 164L
Joined
·
27,582 Posts
I'll say again plug the wires directly onto pin numbers as shown on bottom of the 113 relay:
1. Red to pin 86 power from red stripe relay 112 to energize 113 fuel pump relay
2. Gray-black to pin 85 is grounding wire from computer to ground relay 113 energizing coil
3. Orange-black to one of the pin 87's.
4. Pink-white to the other pin 87 to send power to fuel pump.
5. pink to pin 30 is power from ignition switch and F22 engine services fuse.

Those two "white" wires you have to be one pink and one pink-white somewhere under harness tape covering.
 

·
Registered
Black 1991 - 164L
Joined
·
38 Posts
Discussion Starter #7
I'll say again plug the wires directly onto pin numbers as shown on bottom of the 113 relay:
1. Red to pin 86 power from red stripe relay 112 to energize 113 fuel pump relay
2. Gray-black to pin 85 is grounding wire from computer to ground relay 113 energizing coil
3. Orange-black to one of the pin 87's.
4. Pink-white to the other pin 87 to send power to fuel pump.
5. pink to pin 30 is power from ignition switch and F22 engine services fuse.

Those two "white" wires you have to be one pink and one pink-white somewhere under harness tape covering.
So your wiring instructions were perfect. My question is we’re there differently wired cars. Take a look at these photos. I recently had someone send me one of these panels:
1676915

the wiring and relay bases look like this:
1676916

1676917

1676918
The ones on my car look like this:
1676920

here is a photo of them next to each other:

1676921

see the difference? They don’t even have the same mounting slots on the panel:
1676922

1676923

also the one I bought is wired just how you explained it. It has a pink with white stripe wire and two solid pink wires that go together into one terminal. Mine only has one pink/white and one solid pink. Also the terminal ends on the gray/black and solid red wires are too large and won’t fit into the base of the salvaged ones I bought. Here are photos:
1676927

1676928

So I imagine there must have been a car like mine that was wired differently than later models. Has anyone ever seen this? Or is this some knockoff thing someone did during the cars life. All of the wiring going to that panel looks to be original and I cannot find any splices in the harness so far. So does anyone have the relay base like this that would fit my car?
 

·
Registered
Black 1991 - 164L
Joined
·
38 Posts
Discussion Starter #8
Sorry it took me so long to post the photos it’s been busy and I had to take the Giulia to the dealer for service. Photos are worth a 1000 words.
 

·
Premium Member
1991 164L
Joined
·
27,582 Posts
Many different venders are used and supply parts to Alfa during production runs so easy to see two different relay sockets and mounting brackets were used. If you are trying to get car running with what you have I would just plug your wire terminals directly to fuel pump relay.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
93 Posts
Great topic, on my TB the previous owner made a switch on the steering column so he could switch the fan on/off, not my thing want to have it as it should. When i will pick up this project (for me it's a project i have no electrical background..) i might need this topic.
 

·
Registered
Black 1991 - 164L
Joined
·
38 Posts
Discussion Starter #11
Many different venders are used and supply parts to Alfa during production runs so easy to see two different relay sockets and mounting brackets were used. If you are trying to get car running with what you have I would just plug your wire terminals directly to fuel pump relay.
Yeah, I did that as a temporary solution using your wiring instructions and it works. I just like the base and everything to look stock. I guess I’ll have to think on this one a little more.

I know this isn’t the classifieds section but if someone reading this has a relay base that looks like the one on my car I would love to take it off your hands.
 

·
Premium Member
1991 164L
Joined
·
27,582 Posts
There was a production change but I don't know what date or VIN/Chassis number it occurred.
Modifications description 270 NEW INJECTION WIRING HARNESS AND AMP TYPE RELAY HOLDER BRACKET
12276086 Relay CONNECTION BLOCK 01 COL-030
12276087 Relay CONNECTION BLOCK 01 COL-050
COL-030 GREY
COL-050 BLACK
Coil mounting bracket 60558041 PLATE C270 gray relay sockets
and 60585599 PLATE D270 black relay sockets
 
1 - 12 of 12 Posts
Top