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Discussion Starter #1
I have had plenty of 164 manuals over the years but they have all been QVs, I just purchased a base manual and do not know that much about them, off memory I remember reading the clutch is different?

What is the differences between the QV (S) and base manuals?

Is the base manual engine just the same as the automatic engine just adapted to fit the manual gearbox?
 

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If your talking 3L V6 engines, the QV is 200HP vs 180HP for the B...US versions anyway. Probably non US versions are a little higher.
QV manuals run a pull clutch, B runs a push clutch.
North American versions of the B don't have ABS, QVs and Ls have ABS.
 

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Discussion Starter #3
Thanks Richard, Australia did not receive these officially and this one I have purchased is a private import but has ABS, the slave cylinder looks to be in a slightly different position and it has the automatic air intake boot not the s type shape one of the QV.
 

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The base and S version differences mentioned are for the 12 valve engine.

The later quattrovalvole engine (QV) only came in one power version for North America, I believe. Starting in 1993?

All the engine versions were fitted with a different bell housing to accept an automatic.

For the 12 valve engine the S came with the uprated and different clutch ( a bit silly since the peak torque of the two engines were almost the same and the final drive ratio in the base (and L) models was taller which loads the clutch more). The main engine differences besides the clutch type were the exhaust (which fits the base car) and the AMM. On paper the S developed about 15 more horsepower ( my shop manual us a bit vague on exactly the hp difference) but the torque differed by only a handful of lb ft. The acceleration difference was due to the final drive ratio difference. Fit an S gearbox to an L or base trim car and the acceleration will be practically identical.
 

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Discussion Starter #5
Thankyou Michael, yes just talking 12 valve engines here
So are there any issues in fitting a QV gearbox to the base engine or base gearbox to the QV engine, straight swap no issues?
Is there any wiring loom differences between the base manual and the QV?
Are the ecus plug and play, no need to swap injection loom?
 

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Discussion Starter #6 (Edited)
No one has the above information?

I have decided to overhaul the interior on my base manual, upgrade carpet, seats, lighting and some trim bits to Super interior

On removing the carpet I thought I would check the ecu number as I have not had a base manual before and it might be a good idea to grab a spare ecu in case of any problems in the future, to my amazement the base manual runs the same ecu as the automatic, would never have guessed that one, think I have about 15 spares of them, I know the QV has a different ecu number so was expecting the same with the base manual, so automatic or manual transmission make no difference, engine management run off the same ecu?

Does anyone know what the relay in the second photo controls, runs off the management loom just near the ecu?
 

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Thankyou Michael, yes just talking 12 valve engines here
So are there any issues in fitting a QV gearbox to the base engine or base gearbox to the QV engine, straight swap no issues?
Is there any wiring loom differences between the base manual and the QV?
Are the ecus plug and play, no need to swap injection loom?
QV which is our 12v 164S has pull clutch set up and Base/L has push clutch so trannys have different clutch release arms. S tranny has extra switch for electric struts when in 1-2 gear. So you have to switch clutch release arms and slave cylinder mounting brackets to match clutch set up.

ECUs are different as is/are air flow meters (AFM) and corrageted hoses and air clean tops.

S AFM is 4-wire and Base/L AFM is 5-wire so you have to move one wire from pin 5 on Base/Lto pin 1 in AFM connector to use S AFM and not use old pin 1 wire but you can use wiring loom as is otherwise.

Your relay picture is not clear enough for me to tell anything about it.
 

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Discussion Starter #8
Very interesting thankyou Steve, sorry re the photos, a bit late at night, here's some clearer ones.
 

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