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Discussion Starter #1
Hi Guys,

Hope somebody can help me answer a few questions, on engine peripherals.

I have a 3.0 Verde motor that I'm considering selling. One inquiry prefers it be as complete as possible. When I bought this unit a while back, there was a box of goodies that I may have to track down from the seller. Not sure that's gonna happen, quite yet.

Missing is the alternator and ECU. I have extra Jetronic ECUs from GTV6s... would those be a direct swap? I have extra GTV6 alternators... is there a difference there?

I have removed the 3.0 flywheel to use on my 24v LS motor conversion. If I gave him a flywheel from a GTV6 2.5 to use on the 3.0... do you see a problem there? I still have the 3.0 starter, and some 2.5 starters... if the 2.5 flywheel works on the 3.0, do I need to swap the 3.0 starter for the 2.5 starter??

Did the 3.0 Verde motor use exactly the same ECU as the Jetronic on the GTV6 2.5? Or did they switch to Motronic for the Milano Verde? If there was an overlap in the Verde production run... is there a clue on the motor that might ID which version was used on that motor, without tracking down the ECU that came with it originally?

If they both used the Jetronic ECU, is it just a matter of remapping a 2.5 ECU to make it work on a 3.0? If so, are the original Bosch ECUs re-mappable? Or are the two close enough that it doesn't much matter?

Lotsa questions, I know. But if you can help with any of those, it would make my life so much easier!

Thanks a bunch, in advance,
Peter
 

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The 2.5 and the 3.0 used different fuel injection ECUs and different ignition ECUs. The pre-1984 ECUs are very different. The later 2.5 fuel ECUs have different fuel curves and fuel cut off limits.

No Milano left the factory with Motronic, although a small number of 75s did. The L-Jet ECU can be "re-mapped", but the odds are against it. It involves unsoldering, then soldering in resistors. It's much easier, and more reliable to alter the fuel curve other ways, like with some sort of box to intercept the coolant temp signal at high throttle settings. I wrote instructions on how to do that somewhere either here or at the gtv6 forum, don't ask me where, I don't remember.

Greg,
Silicone Hose Kits
OKINJECTORS.COM
 

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And different air flow meter, and O2 sensor.
 

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Discussion Starter #5
Thanks a ton for the help guys!

Sounds like I'd need to see if I can recover my original ECU, or to track down a used one that is certified for the 3.0. The engine harness and fuel management systems are still residing on the motor, so i think I'm OK there. The exhaust manifolds (as I remember) are still on the motor. Altho, I have some aftermarket performance headers to offer, as well.

Still need a bit of input on whether a 2.5 GTV6 flywheel (and poss starter) with swap easily. And if the alternators are the same. Getting there!

Cheers,
Peter
 

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The last 3 digits of the 3L ECU part # are 134.
Last 3 digits of my spare 2.5L ECU are 132. I think it's from an 85 GTV6.
For your purpose they are interchangeable.
 

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Thanks a ton for the help guys!

Sounds like I'd need to see if I can recover my original ECU, or to track down a used one that is certified for the 3.0. The engine harness and fuel management systems are still residing on the motor, so i think I'm OK there. The exhaust manifolds (as I remember) are still on the motor. Altho, I have some aftermarket performance headers to offer, as well.

Still need a bit of input on whether a 2.5 GTV6 flywheel (and poss starter) with swap easily. And if the alternators are the same. Getting there!

Cheers,
Peter
I think you need a spacer to use 2.5L flywheel on 3.0 engine and of course correct length bolts, too.

Starter should be the same for both engines as Milano book shows same number but they show two different alternators even though spec same for both.
 

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For it to be right the flywheel needs to be the correct Verde flywheel ( I think they are balanced differently). APE has used ones, so probably the most appropriate thing to do would be to take $200 off what someone would pay for a complete swap to allow for buying the flywheel from APE.
 

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That's right - its not just the spacer on the flywheel - the balance-factor for a 3.0 is different from the 2.5...
 

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Discussion Starter #12
Hi Guys,

Thanks again for your input. Very helpful !!

The gentleman who's asking about my Verde engine seems to be in Israel. So by the time he figures in customs fees, shipping, etc... I expect he may opt out. He still seems quite serious, to this point tho. Could get very pricey, in the end! Once I hear his final verdict, I can let you know if this 3.0 rascal is still available.

It's still unclear exactly how complete he needs this to be. So far, I know it's going in a Milano. Not sure if that means Verde, or other yet? If he's starting with more than an empty engine bay, he may have some of those bits to supply, himself.

Jungle... the reason this motor is missing the fly wheel, is on your recommendation that I save that for my 24v project, we've talked about. Were there any other crucial parts from the Verde motor that I'll be wishing I had saved aside?? Remember: I still have a 2.5 from an '83 GTV6, and as many as three 2.5 motors from 1986 GTV6 models.

The 24v LS 3.0 transplant is the reason I'm considering selling the Verde engine. A few ALFAs had to die to help pay for bringing one very nice one back to life.
 

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Discussion Starter #13 (Edited)
Let me know about the performance headers if you are getting rid of them.

Dean
Hi Dean,

We're not so far from each other, distance-wise, and the motor and headers could be back on the table before long?

On the headers... I did throw those out as an option for the interested Israeli.
That's still up in the air, for now.

Here's a few hints on what those might be. Mine, I an guessing, could be Shankle brand headers (used). The configuration looks more like the $1100 units sold by Centerline, than the $655 units offered by IAP. Altho, not identical to either. See pix.

I'm told that these would work on a 2.5 12v... or a 3.0 12v Verde. But they won't work on my 24v 164LS/Q motor. I bought them for the 24v project, but as it turns out they are no help there. Round exhaust ports vs oval ones. So, I no longer require these.

Best to connect directly: [email protected]
 

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Discussion Starter #14
That's right - its not just the spacer on the flywheel - the balance-factor for a 3.0 is different from the 2.5...
I have an example of the Verde flywheel and a 2.5 flywheel (sitting in the same box). Is there a spacer available to convert the 2.5 to match the Verde flywheel? Or is there more to it than just that?

If the spacing is different, does that mean the starter gear has to reach further to meet the flywheel teeth?

Thanks, Peter
 

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Discussion Starter #15
I think I have a milano ECU around if you are interested. If not I would be interested in the engine!
Is your ECU the one designed for the Verde 3.0 motor? Or is yours for a Gold, Platinum, etc?

Not sure if i need that yet, but good to know if I do.

Thanks,
Peter
 

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In the Blue Meanie, I put a Verde 3.0 , and used the stock intake setup, headers and ECU that Greg had on the original 2.5. I did have to use a spacer on the "flywheel" though. Runs great, LOTS of power. I have done several other 3.0 conversions using the 2.5 stuff as well. May not be the 'proper' way, but it works.
 

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Discussion Starter #17
Good to know, Glenn,

Did you have to create those spacers from scratch? Or, are those available out there somewhere?

From that, it sounds like I could get away with a stock GTV6 alternator, ECU, and starter motor if needed. And only have to be concerned with the flywheel setup, if the buyer actually needed that bit.

My 3.0 Verde engine still has the original Verde engine wiring harness, and the original fuel management system/Plenum goodies it came with.
 

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You need a 4mm spacer between the crank and the flywheel if you use a GTV6 2.5 flywheel on a 3.0 engine. Any decent machine shop should be able to make one.

That sorts out the starter motor engagement (using the 2.5 starter) although the front support on the starter, the one that mounts to the engine mount, will still need to be 'adapted" as the block itself is a shorter than on the 2.5

Because of that you also end up with a flywheel and rear engine mount 4mm shorter than on the original GTV6 setup so there is 4mm less engagement on the tailshaft and a few other minor things need adapting as well (like the flywheel inspection plate).

Regarding the ECU, I ran a Euro GTV6 ECU and injectors on my US spec 164 3.0 engine for several years with no issues. Didnt run lean and produced 160bhp at the wheels. The Alfa part numbers differed between the ECU's but the Bosch part numbers were the same.
 

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Is your ECU the one designed for the Verde 3.0 motor? Or is yours for a Gold, Platinum, etc?

Not sure if i need that yet, but good to know if I do.

Thanks,
Peter
Peter, I will check on Monday. I have everything in storage and will dig it out then! It was from a Verde and I have a bunch of other parts from it too. Possibly a flywheel and headers...
 

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Regarding the ECU, I ran a Euro GTV6 ECU and injectors on my US spec 164 3.0 engine for several years with no issues. Didnt run lean and produced 160bhp at the wheels. The Alfa part numbers differed between the ECU's but the Bosch part numbers were the same.
Sorry - it was the AFM that was the same Bosch part number. My mistake....
 
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