Anyone have background on this car for sale in Rockville, Maryland:
:: 1971 Alfa Romeo Montreal - Flemings Ultimate Garage
Thanks in advance.
8oclock
:: 1971 Alfa Romeo Montreal - Flemings Ultimate Garage
Thanks in advance.
8oclock
Question on Montreal Listing
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No idea about the cars priors, however it seems the salesman is doing his best to market it! Would correct some of the info: it has 200 DIN hp, the 230Hp mentioned is SAE and that is not used any more. He mentions transaxle all the time, that means normally that the gearbox is in the rear, however on this car the gearbox is in the front. Also its mentioned the car has double wishbone suspension, but its only front, at the rear its live or rigid axle. Probably the misinformation about the technology is lack of knowledge about the car.
Otherwise its a very nice car and I would take it even it has recirculating ball steering, live axle and Spica mechanical injection using a lot of fuel. Its just a nice Montreal! With a high price.
G.K.
Otherwise its a very nice car and I would take it even it has recirculating ball steering, live axle and Spica mechanical injection using a lot of fuel. Its just a nice Montreal! With a high price.
G.K.
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Well, SAE may not be used in Norway, but it is very much referenced here in the US. DIN has little relevancy over here as well. As the car is in the US, referencing the SAE seems quite appropriate.
However, even the SAE standard has changed over the years, so we don't know which method they are referring to. That's OK, as a liberated American owning an Alfa is not so nearly a binary experience as a member of the EU owning one.
However, even the SAE standard has changed over the years, so we don't know which method they are referring to. That's OK, as a liberated American owning an Alfa is not so nearly a binary experience as a member of the EU owning one.
Yes we know what this SAE hp is, its the old one from when the car was new! (70-76) Thats some years ago! The factory spec is 200Hp DIN and 230hp SAE. Obviously its more interesting to use the higher figure as a sales argument! Today it would say SAE net and then it would be about the same as DIN! Thats what counts today!
GK.
GK.
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"That's what counts today".
I rest my case.
I rest my case.
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So, anyway, back to 8o'clocks question.
It looks to me to be a good deal, from appearances, always hard to tell without seeing in person. A decent driver in good condition is certainly worth that price these days. I don't know any history on that car though, anybody else know of it?
It looks to me to be a good deal, from appearances, always hard to tell without seeing in person. A decent driver in good condition is certainly worth that price these days. I don't know any history on that car though, anybody else know of it?
Please visit these Alfa Romeo Montreal pages. Almost any question about the Montreal is answered there!
The Alfa Romeo Montreal Website
GK
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Made the trip to rockville with a buddy on friday. 5 and a half hours with traffic.
Had made a scheduled appointment and told them I would be there at 1030. I arrived at 1030. through multiple phone calls during the week they made it clear they would not put the car on a lift but would get the car on jack stands in the showroom. I regrettably agreed to this compromise. The car is being advertised as in 11,000 mile car. It is not. There is very little, if any significant rust on the car. Car has been repainted. Paint is about a 7 and a half out of ten. The oil pan has been welded. The car needs motor mounts. Driver's door does not line up At the top right corner leaving a gap when viewed from the inside. It appears as if the door was jimmied by a crowbar. There appears to be a leaking water pump. There is a small oil leak. The power windows do not work. The power antenna does not work. The front seats are nicely reupholstered and appear new. All of the interior trim appears to be there, but it is in average condition. Clearly not 11,000 miles. Biggest issue was the test drive. Car was reported to be driving fine. When I took the car out for a test drive, it was running on 6 cylinders at best. The plugs were fouled. Needless to say, I found this very unprofessional and concerning as I had made a scheduled appointment to see the car and clearly no concern was given to me or my time. If you do a google search on this company, you will be hard pressed to find positive feedback.
Had made a scheduled appointment and told them I would be there at 1030. I arrived at 1030. through multiple phone calls during the week they made it clear they would not put the car on a lift but would get the car on jack stands in the showroom. I regrettably agreed to this compromise. The car is being advertised as in 11,000 mile car. It is not. There is very little, if any significant rust on the car. Car has been repainted. Paint is about a 7 and a half out of ten. The oil pan has been welded. The car needs motor mounts. Driver's door does not line up At the top right corner leaving a gap when viewed from the inside. It appears as if the door was jimmied by a crowbar. There appears to be a leaking water pump. There is a small oil leak. The power windows do not work. The power antenna does not work. The front seats are nicely reupholstered and appear new. All of the interior trim appears to be there, but it is in average condition. Clearly not 11,000 miles. Biggest issue was the test drive. Car was reported to be driving fine. When I took the car out for a test drive, it was running on 6 cylinders at best. The plugs were fouled. Needless to say, I found this very unprofessional and concerning as I had made a scheduled appointment to see the car and clearly no concern was given to me or my time. If you do a google search on this company, you will be hard pressed to find positive feedback.
Heavy Metal Alfa is right. I paid a little less than that price for mine last winter for a nice, very well documented car, with lots of very good and rare spares. My car scored 93.3 at the AROC concours this July, and Heavy Metal Alfa can speak to the good condition of my car, having ridden in it at the Convention.
The water pump is a big deal on these cars. Most of the time, it is an "engine out" job, though some people claim to have been able to do it by taking apart the grille and jacking the engine up a couple of inches to access it form the front. The other issues sound relatively minor (including the running on 6 cyl - what you need is a good SPICA guy: it is probably way out of adjustment, needing a new T/A and running extremely rich - my GTV was like this when I bought it and with Wes Ingram's book I was able to bring it back to spec. The Montreal is a little more intimidating, but it is unlikely that the pump is bad. There are lots of good resources out there, and Wes is good with the 8 cylinder pumps, too).
Problem is, they're really asking top dollar for a good driver, and it is unlikely that you'll be able to negotiate them down enough to make this one worth while. My previous owner had the water pump bearing replaced (allegedly without the engine out) and, together with some minor regular service, his invoice came to just under $3K, after a $1K courtesy discount, as he is a collector who sent all his toy car work to the same mechanic. With the kind of issues that you're talking about, plus the fact that you're unlikely to get any kind of history or documentation on the car from a dealer, I wouldn't touch it for anything over $27-28K, and even then, I would have to be absolutely satisfied that I wouldn't be finding any surprises (brakes, ancillary systems, rust) down the road, and that every single piece of trim (interior and exterior) was there, since a lot of this stuff is unobtainium now. Some Montreal parts are a lot harder to get than other 105 series cars (and you often have to go to European suppliers) and not so many mechanics on this side of the pond are familar with the Alfa V-8. A cheap Montreal is really not very cheap at all, and of all the Alfas, "buy the best you can find" applies the most to it.
The good news is, they do come up for sale (including some really good cars)reasonably often. There was one advertised at the AROC Convention recently which looked like a near no.1 condition. At any given time, there are several for sale in Europe, and good to very good cars are trading there these days in the $40K range regularly. Visit the website mentionned in an earlier poster's post, and buy Bruce Taylor's book (it is an absolutely invaluable resource, without which I would not have bought my Montreal).
Good luck!
The water pump is a big deal on these cars. Most of the time, it is an "engine out" job, though some people claim to have been able to do it by taking apart the grille and jacking the engine up a couple of inches to access it form the front. The other issues sound relatively minor (including the running on 6 cyl - what you need is a good SPICA guy: it is probably way out of adjustment, needing a new T/A and running extremely rich - my GTV was like this when I bought it and with Wes Ingram's book I was able to bring it back to spec. The Montreal is a little more intimidating, but it is unlikely that the pump is bad. There are lots of good resources out there, and Wes is good with the 8 cylinder pumps, too).
Problem is, they're really asking top dollar for a good driver, and it is unlikely that you'll be able to negotiate them down enough to make this one worth while. My previous owner had the water pump bearing replaced (allegedly without the engine out) and, together with some minor regular service, his invoice came to just under $3K, after a $1K courtesy discount, as he is a collector who sent all his toy car work to the same mechanic. With the kind of issues that you're talking about, plus the fact that you're unlikely to get any kind of history or documentation on the car from a dealer, I wouldn't touch it for anything over $27-28K, and even then, I would have to be absolutely satisfied that I wouldn't be finding any surprises (brakes, ancillary systems, rust) down the road, and that every single piece of trim (interior and exterior) was there, since a lot of this stuff is unobtainium now. Some Montreal parts are a lot harder to get than other 105 series cars (and you often have to go to European suppliers) and not so many mechanics on this side of the pond are familar with the Alfa V-8. A cheap Montreal is really not very cheap at all, and of all the Alfas, "buy the best you can find" applies the most to it.
The good news is, they do come up for sale (including some really good cars)reasonably often. There was one advertised at the AROC Convention recently which looked like a near no.1 condition. At any given time, there are several for sale in Europe, and good to very good cars are trading there these days in the $40K range regularly. Visit the website mentionned in an earlier poster's post, and buy Bruce Taylor's book (it is an absolutely invaluable resource, without which I would not have bought my Montreal).
Good luck!
Thanks For Replies
Thanks everyone for the helpful replies. I did look at the car, its been sitting at that dealership for months and months at that price - the tires were way low from sitting in the show room. The dealer appears to be ready to wait as long as it takes to get their price. Given the errors in the vid they have posted, Alfa's are just an odd exotic for them, they figure the right buyer will walk in the door. The in-person inspection post here was telling, I'll resist the alluring sound of that great V8 and see if a car with an Alfisti provenance becomes available.
Thanks again,
8oclock
Thanks everyone for the helpful replies. I did look at the car, its been sitting at that dealership for months and months at that price - the tires were way low from sitting in the show room. The dealer appears to be ready to wait as long as it takes to get their price. Given the errors in the vid they have posted, Alfa's are just an odd exotic for them, they figure the right buyer will walk in the door. The in-person inspection post here was telling, I'll resist the alluring sound of that great V8 and see if a car with an Alfisti provenance becomes available.
Thanks again,
8oclock
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Yes, Con Gusto, your car is an exceptional example, you got a great deal!!
Has anyone seen the 2 at Gullwing motors recently?
Has anyone seen the 2 at Gullwing motors recently?
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As I live in NY, I see the Gullwing cars on occassion as I drive by that area. I have not inspected them (not sure if the "good one" sold), but I can tell you they were (are) stored outside in an uncovered lot!
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Con Gusto "My previous owner had the water pump bearing replaced, allegedly without the engine out "
It is possible to replace water pump bearing w/o putting engine out . You need
aid of some homemade tools , sublte fingers and good eyes . Discription of tools
and work you will find in the Alfa Montreal Webside under chapter Achilles Heel.
Bernhard
It is possible to replace water pump bearing w/o putting engine out . You need
aid of some homemade tools , sublte fingers and good eyes . Discription of tools
and work you will find in the Alfa Montreal Webside under chapter Achilles Heel.
Bernhard
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1,365 Posts
Laughing at the video. The problem with these dealers is that they are used to dealing with smucks who nothing about cars looking to buy the Camaro they had in high school. Unfortunately for them, people who buy Alfa's generally know much more about the cars than the clueless salesmen. I just pity the car having to sit in the showroom for years.
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Wow, just watched the video, I had no idea they had transaxles! I'll have to look under mine to see if it has one too ! ;-}
The presenter seems like a nice guy, but no clue on the cars real features makes for a poor presentation. Still seems like a good car, just needs some work to be put in order.
The presenter seems like a nice guy, but no clue on the cars real features makes for a poor presentation. Still seems like a good car, just needs some work to be put in order.
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13,455 Posts
This guy is waay to slick for me. I wouldn't buy a bag of rice from him if I were starving.
It's funny, the guy is in the car business, but he says he doesn't know anything about cars? Why buy from someone who doesn't know anything about the products he sells?
It's funny, the guy is in the car business, but he says he doesn't know anything about cars? Why buy from someone who doesn't know anything about the products he sells?
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1,157 Posts
At best this car is a novelty for them....As I expressed in my previous post...there are numerous needs this car has....assuming the Spica pumps get sorted it is a good driver..When I saw the car and spoke to the sales rep (Jeff), they were ready to accept $30 K (though I didn't offer that)...they have probably done a little homework since then and seen the money some European Montys have fetched, but fail to realize that those cars are well sorted and clearly do not have the needs this car has....They are hoping one of PT Barnum's customers will come their way...
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