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Discussion Starter #1
I wish to correspond with owners of Quattroruote Zagato cars. Please respond off list.

Regards, William Hall
 

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Darn, why off list? I have always been intrigued by these unique cars and would enjoy the experience of a related discussion. Thanks for any consideration of this notion going forward.

Best regards,
George
 

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Discussion Starter #4
I only know a little bit about the Pettenella Leontina 2000, in that one sold a year ago at auction. I have never seen one in person.The auction description describes a ladder type frame, aluminum floors, front leaf style suspension and disc brakes hidden by backing plates. It describes the body fit as excellent. Apparently only a handful were made. Four cylinder Alfa power.

Please elaborate on the differences that make this car superior to the 4R Zagato. What type of frame does the 4R use? What type of electrics and gauges- modern type?

Zagato in later years was marked by brilliant design but notoriously shoddy construction. I cannot speak to the early cars as I have only seen examples that have been expensively restored (often numerous times) correcting any original flaws.

I would enjoy an open forum exploring these cars, though I thought some might be reluctant in participating publicly. I gave them an option to private email, but I haven't heard from any owners out there. Are there any cars in the U.S.- other than the black and cream car which sold a few months ago in New Jersey?

Anyone have any photos to post of a 4R or Leontina?
 

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Here is a link to scans of the 4R and Pettenella. Please excuse the quality, but the originals are on newsprint. As you can see, the 4R is much more "stylized". It almost looks Like a "slammed" MG TD. It is based on the single carb Giulia platform.

I don't know much about the tech of the Pettenella, but it looks a lot more like the original 1930s car. I believe only about 20 were made. I have never seen one in person either.

I believe that there are about 5 or 6 4Rs in the US. There was one in Orange County, just south of Los Angeles, about 6-7 years ago...

http://pg.photos.yahoo.com/ph/etceterinidoctor/album?.dir=/5592
 

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I've been told of a 4R in upstate NY by a friend of the owner. Apparently it's disassembled now, awaiting restoration and reassembly.
 

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dretceterini said:
... I believe that there are about 5 or 6 4Rs in the US. There was one in Orange County, just south of Los Angeles, about 6-7 years ago...
The one I'm aware of in Orange County was at the Magnaflow event in October 2004.
 

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There is one in the San Diego area (Ed Anelle), one in Orange County (forgot the owners name), and Dirk Stoehr has a third one. I dunno of any others. I have driven Dirk's car a few times.....amazing car.
 

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Here are a couple of pages from the February, 1967 Quattroruote Speciale "Tutto Le Auto Del Mondo":
 

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The 4R is too "stylized" for my taste, and to me looks more like an MG TD or TF than an Alfa, excpet for the grille. It is not a very accurate replica. The Pettenella is much more accurate looking.
 

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One of our active club members here in Portland, Oregon has a gorgeous red 4R Zagato. He drives it a few times a year. One evening tour two years ago we had his 4R, two Jr. Zs, and an SZ along. I was right behind him and I would say that it's quite quick and very nice handling. Cornered with virtually no body roll at all. Only weighs about 1,700 pounds. That was a nice drive. He also had it out at our picnic this year, and brings it to other meetings as well.

I've spent some time crawling around it, it looks to be partly tubular/partly monocoque constuction, using some of the Giulia suspension cross members & mounting points, etc, although it doesn't look as though it's a complete Giulia floorpan. Looks to be using all the standard Giulia suspension, brake, & drivetrain components, 1600 engine w/single Solex. The body is really very beautifully constructed, with tight panel gaps, straight lines, and smooth flowing curves. Lots and lots of neat details and alloy castings. The kind of car you can look at for a long time, finding details that are pleasing to the eye. These cars look much better in the flesh than in photos, although they certainly can't be confused with the earlier models. The wheels are the main out of proportion point for me, they look a little too small in diameter for the lines of the fenders, in my view. Altogether very nice cars & not deserving of the "kit car" bum rap they get sometimes.

The owner I believe does not watch the Alfa BB, although he's very computer literate. I'll ask him to jump in & respond when I see him @ the next meeting.

Bruce
 

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O.C. 4R Zagato

The Orange County 4R Zagato is (or was, as of a couple of years ago) owned by Stewart Sandeman of APC. I remember it as having dual Webers and being a wonderful car.

Kent
 

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The one I went to look at that was for sale was not owned by him. It belonged to one of his customers that had it for a long time. Same car or different ones?
 

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I remember Ken Shaff drove up in a 4R once - I think it had a two tone paint scheme that was tan over dark brown. Is anyone familiar with car. I agree that the proportions are not very good considering what (I gather) it is trying to be.
 

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I owned a QUATTRORUOTE ZAGATO 4R from 1976 to 1988.
It was # 37 of the 92 PRODUCED.
It was BRITISH RACING GREEN w/ BLACK FENDERS - ORIGINAL COLORS.

It was BASED on a 101.23 MODEL w/ 3 SHOE FRONT DRUM BRAKES , the LARGE DRUM BRAKES in REAR.
5.12 DIFF.
1600 NORMALE ENGINE w/ 5 SPEED GEARBOX
EARLY 101 GAUGES.
SEAT BACKS were FIXED so whole seat lifted forward to access rear interior deck, where one would store the TOP & SIDE CURTAINS.

They were THREE of them in CHICAGO AREA in the 70s - 80s.

ONE WAS TOTALLY ORIGINAL - NEVER TITLED LESS than 500 MILES from NEW. RED in COLOR.

The other was RED w/ BLACK - NICE CAR .
I INSTALLED WEBERS on that one.
REALLY WOKE IT UP !

And finally MINE.

They ALL left the CHICAGO AREA.

A PERHAPS INTERESTING STORY w/ my car was ;

I BOUGHT BRAND NEW SPARES FROM ZAGATO FOR THE CAR in 77 - 78.

A PAIR of RUNNING BOARDS
A LUGGAGE RACK
SOME SMALL TRIM PIECES
And a SET OF 4 BORRANI WIRE WHEELS w/ ADAPTORS & KNOCKOFFS.

The people at ZAGATO were VERY CO-OPERATIVE they even gave me a HIDE of UPHOLSTERY as a BONUS.

A FUN CAR I WILL ALWAYS REMEMBER.

ALAN P.
ITALIA AUTOMOBILI
 

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I believe that Stewart and Carole bought the 2-tone red one from their customer (and former chapter prez.) whose name escapes me for the moment.

Kent
 

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KKochheiser said:
The Orange County 4R Zagato is (or was, as of a couple of years ago) owned by Stewart Sandeman of APC. I remember it as having dual Webers and being a wonderful car.

Kent
I talked to him today, he still has it.
 

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Next time you see him tell him "HI" from Kent!
 
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