Alfa Romeo Forums banner

1 - 20 of 20 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
4 Posts
Discussion Starter #1
I have a chance to purchase a 164 that has been sitting for at least 5 years and has not moved or been started. There is oil in the engine and it is not contaminated. The car is complete and the body is very solid and no rust underneath. They are only asking $300.00, any ideas on how difficult this car would be to get running again. I do have mechanical knowledge just not real familiar with Alfas. It is a automatic trans also, are these good Transmissions?
 

Attachments

·
Registered
Joined
·
4 Posts
Discussion Starter #2
I have a chance to purchase a 164 that has been sitting for at least 5 years and has not moved or been started. There is oil in the engine and it is not contaminated. The car is complete and the body is very solid and no rust underneath. They are only asking $300.00, any ideas on how difficult this car would be to get running again. I do have mechanical knowledge just not real familiar with Alfas. It is a automatic trans also, are these good Transmissions?
It only has 38000 miles
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
9,766 Posts
Check engine wiring before purchasing. Might end up being more of a nightmare.
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
26,901 Posts
Prolly a good Alfa 164 to learn on for $300. Do NOT try to start engine or turn it over with starter. You must inspect engine timing belt and cam timing very closely. We have procedures for doing that posted on this 164 forum. Fuel system must be tested and maybe furl pump will be inoperative with bad gas in tank.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
4 Posts
Discussion Starter #5
Thank you for your reply's, I figure for $300.00 it's not much of a risk. Do these use the same key for the doors and ignition?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,375 Posts
Personally, if you are happy with an auto and competent at working on cars, for $300 I'd go for it. In worst case, you'll learn a lot from it and have a whole stack of parts for another 164. I once stripped a 164 down to literally just the bare shell did exactly that.
As advised by Steve, do not try to start it or even turn the engine over until the cambelt has been inspected/changed. It will be old and may even be the original item - if the cambelt snaps your engine is effectively a gonner, unless you have several $thousand to invest in a rebuild, which would involved changing the cambelt anyway.
There are many great articles on this forum, thanks to the likes of Steve, Jason and several other key figures, that can help you in anything and everything you may possibly need to do.
Enjoy the experience and the ride that follows...
 

·
Super Moderator
Joined
·
10,367 Posts
Do these use the same key for the doors and ignition?
Yes same key. Trunk too (unless what you have is the "valet key").

richardbradford said:
if the cambelt snaps your engine is effectively a gonner, unless you have several $thousand to invest in a rebuild, which would involved changing the cambelt anyway.
Richard is 100% correct here. I would add that most 164's that have been sitting for 5 years ended up in that condition because they have some mechanical problem - and usually it's the cam belt. However, Richard is speaking a bit figuratively when he ways "snaps". Cam belts don't snap, their teeth shear off, so the belt looks fine and feels tight - it just doesn't turn when the crankshaft spins. If that has happened to this car, the damage is already done, but cranking the engine won't help matters.

Note that an automatic, 12 valve 164 with faded paint is the least valuable example of this model. $300 may sound like a "can't lose" price, but you may be underwater on this investment after you re-fill the gas tank. I just sold a 12 valve 164 with faded paint for $300 and mine was running, registered and had a manual trans.
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
26,901 Posts
Thank you for your reply's, I figure for $300.00 it's not much of a risk. Do these use the same key for the doors and ignition?
Yes same key but original key set had a second or third valet key that was thicker in center grooves so would not fit in trunk lock. We usually just filed down valet key center groove lands with a Dremel tool to fit trunk lock.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,375 Posts
Alfajay makes good point about the value of the car/belt condition - hadn't been aware of the teeth coming off but can see how that could happen with an old belt. Good to know and ouch. Steve is a genius about modding the keys, as with many other 164 things Steve is a genius about.
At the end of the day it depends on how much you enjoy working on cars and want a 164, auto or otherwise. These Alfa's have long since cost more to repair/run than their resale value. As a project to make money on it is a non-starter from the beginning (no pun intended). If you see it as a challenge to get a fun car on the road that is a different story.
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
26,901 Posts
I am fresh out of 164 5-speed models having just sold my 164S, BUT I still have a black 164L Automatico which I have had for 11 years and it is a fun car to drive. It has over 230,000 miles on it now. Take it slow on bringing this $300 car back to life. Ask questions and go for it. Man has to have a hobby!
1616989
1616990
1616991
 

·
Super Moderator
Joined
·
10,367 Posts
At the end of the day it depends on how much you enjoy working on cars and want a 164, auto or otherwise. These Alfa's have long since cost more to repair/run than their resale value. As a project to make money on it is a non-starter from the beginning (no pun intended). If you see it as a challenge to get a fun car on the road that is a different story.
Exactly! I'm not trying to talk cpd651 out of getting this Alfa - Lord knows, I've bought home a lot of "stray cat" Alfas. I'm just cautioning him that if this isn't exactly the model/year/color Alfa that he wants, then he shouldn't invest much time or effort in it. There are lots more 164's out there, even in the price range of a few hundred bucks.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
4 Posts
Discussion Starter #12
Thanks again for all the answers and advice. I am going to go ahead and bring it home, I work at a auto parts store so I can save some money that way. I plan on this taking quite a while. I will post any updates.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,887 Posts
If enough teeth strip off the cambelt when the corners of the teeth finally fatigue fail then the valve timing changes by enough to allow valves to contact pistons, then the cambelt breaks.

Later belt designs used hemispherical tooth profile which was found to be much more resistant to fatigue failure because the "corners" of the teeth where they met the flat part of the belt developed lower fatigue forces. The later tooth profile belts last around 100,000 miles rather than the less than 50,000 miles for the bevel profile tooth design. The "less than" is the issue because nobody was or is sure how much less is likely, hence the almost mystical belief that the T belt must be changed.

This car is worth very little because the T belt must be changed after so long with no running. Once the T belt is renewed, with bearings and any seeping oil seals, water pump and so on the car will magically become somewhat valuable again.

The rubberized T belt design originated in the 60's when labour was cheap and parts expensive. The reverse is now the case. Later rubberized cambelt designs are basically comparable to steel timing chains. It's the middle period designs with the wrong tooth profile like our 164 engines that caused the routine maintenance costs that eventually lead to scrapping these old cars despite the truly excellent engine, otherwise.

All the other possible problems these old cars suffer from are basically irrelevant compared to this one design problem.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
11 Posts
Thank you for your reply's, I figure for $300.00 it's not much of a risk. Do these use the same key for the doors and ignition?
Well, you are right, so long as it still work and does not cause you more money, then you did the right decision.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,375 Posts
Have you bought it yet? If not, why not offer $200 and see if they go for it? Lots to be done and they are not going to have other people rushing to take it off their hands. Just a thought...
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
893 Posts
Timing belt aside, if the body is solid (have a serious look under the rear, at the seam that runs under the gas cap area and under the trunk at the seam on the gas cap side...bad area for rust). If all good, you may have a nice base to work on as it seems the interior is clean. Use procedures to check for a skipped tooth and hopefully all else will be o.k. There is a chance that the starter fried and after getting the estimate, the owner thought "next year....).
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
893 Posts
If I could come across an LS in good physical shape for $300, I would jump. Replacing all of those tired bits gets expensive and just stripping a good parts car of those odds and ends would probably save me the $300 in the long run. And yes, I am talking about Canadian dollars, which took a beating today so about $190 u.s. Ouch.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,887 Posts
I paid CAD $150 for a "runner" that got as far as the shop where it was to be dismantled. Pushed into and then out of the shop once. The LR wheel snapped off at the hub!

Worth it? Sun visor installed. Wiper motor assembly installed. That's it so far but I've got a number of wear items in my stock just in case. I have already got the value. Oh and I refurbished five alloys to use for winter instead of my narrower steel wheels that were all rusty. That was a tad pricey but was a vanity job. Looks much nicer all year now.

$300 for an intact car with little to no rust is a steal. My current car should sell for a few thousand. If I can find a buyer. Every time I drive it I stop thinking about selling it.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
893 Posts
Yea. That's it. A little hassle can save you alot of hassle and money later. I need a front-right trim piece (mine is a bit dinged but not too bad), left bumper squirter, a replacement console would be good as I cut into mine to install a d-din stereo (but could do a better job, I think). Just those parts would cost over $100 plus shipping if they can be had. I wouldn't mind a front windshield (mine has a small pit that could render it un-certifiable if I were to sell), maybe a spare wiper motor , spare blower motor, an air-bag module that has not been tripped due to an unfortunate powering on while disconnected (95 ls), keep an oil cooler, rad, cooling fan motor...other trim pieces that would be useful spares. There's lots of value in a non-stater that can be had cheaply. Also, I wouldn't mind a cheap non-starter to practice on as well. Learn to get to that starter motor, etc without having mine laid up for days or weeks...So, anyone within a short towing distance with a 94-95 ls that has to go cheaply....
 
1 - 20 of 20 Posts
Top