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Discussion Starter #1
My soon to be GTAm engine for 1532307, is a replacement block,
as the original ones (many!) were sent to the foundry after many thrown rods, when racing here.

My question is concerning the lack of numbers on the new(?) block in my possession and was wondering if numbers should be there?
If so, what numbers, and with what stamps? Or, no numbers?

Thank you for your kind opinions.

Regards, Alberto
 

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Numbers or no numbers?

My soon to be GTAm engine for 1532307, is a replacement block,
as the original ones (many!) were sent to the foundry after many thrown rods, when racing here.

My question is concerning the lack of numbers on the new(?) block in my possession and was wondering if numbers should be there?
If so, what numbers, and with what stamps? Or, no numbers?

Thank you for your kind opinions.

Regards, Alberto
Hello Alberto,

Interesting qustion! The thread refered to by Lokki will help. A fundamental question lies underneath your question concerning the engine block numbers.
As you will know, there were quite a lot of variants within the GTAm theme. See post number #274 on page 19 of this thread: http://www.alfabb.com/bb/forums/gta-1965-1975/162337-gtam-chassisnumbers-19.html

Here they are:
There are variants within the different types:
- new cars from the production line converted to GTAm spec's by Autodelta SpA as Autodelta works cars
- new cars from the production line converted to GTAm spec's by Autodelta SpA as Autodelta customer cars
- existing cars converted to GTAm spec's by Autodelta SpA as Autodelta customer cars
- new or existing cars converted to GTAm spec's by other tuners/teams with a combination of Autodelta, Angelini, Balduzzi, Facetti and other parts like the `Balduzzi` cars (Tony Adriaensens mentions this in his book)
- new or existing (replacement) bodyshells with or without a chassisnumber that were equipped with Autodelta, Angelini, Balduzzi and other parts (for example from wrecked cars)
- other variants on this theme in various stages of tune

A question form me would be; "Do you know with what engine specification #1532307 started with and what modifications & swaps were done during its life? That could help determine what you have now.

Engines in these cars could have a "standard" 1750 engineblock customized to carry the siamesed liners, an Autodelta engineblock, an engine block or complete engine from another tuner like Angelini and other possibilities.

As mentioned by yourself, blocks could throw a conrod and be repaired or eventually scrapped. Here is a picture of a 1750 engineblock that was repaired, in the not to distant past, after an conrod had been thrown.

I have seen my share of engineblocks without numbers which were ordered at the factory as a replacement. It is entirely possible that #1532307 carries such a replacement engineblock. Nothing wrong with that!

Ciao, Olaf
 

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Discussion Starter #5
Hello Alberto,

Interesting qustion! The thread refered to by Lokki will help.
.....

A question form me would be; "Do you know with what engine specification #1532307 started with and what modifications & swaps were done during its life? That could help determine what you have now.

....

Ciao, Olaf
Hello Olaf,

When I 'found' my car, all it had was the front axle, steering box, and rear axle.
The body, you have seen what a disaster it was.

The block, and all sorts of other parts, I got shafted for them in Italy, mostly due to my gross lack of knowledge, but that's another story.
Now, I have all the proper parts, except the block has no numbers.
Is that an issue?

Regards, Alberto
 

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Hi Alberto. How are you? How's the car coming along?

Leave it unstamped unless you know the exact number your car had when raced in period.

If that information is available - e.g. from old Autodelta build sheet - I'd restamp if I had access to an original set of Alfa numbers.

Otherwise I'd be the proud owner of a non-stamped block
 

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Discussion Starter #7
Thank you for asking...I am doing well, a million projects..
Hope you are well also.

Things are moving along, slowly, but soon, I am hoping to get more going along as far as 1532307 is concerned.

I think it is almost impossible to have the original numbers, and even so, where would I find original Alfa stamps?

My guess, it will remain numberless.

Regards, Alberto
 

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Hi all,

Apologies for a long mostly OT post.

It always astonishes me discussions on ``matching numbers``as I am often surprised at other`s attitude to this situation, for me, if it ain`t matching, it ain`t matching. Any thing else is fakery.

An amusing article written by Gerald Roush for his magazine Ferrari Market Letter years ago featured a spoof letter from the team manager to Enzo recounting a tough race when the engine, gearbox, axle front and rear suspension had to be changed, mechanics working all nite, wrong parts etc.. His final sign off was the value of the car had been destroyed for future generations as nothing was now original but Enzo would be pleased to hear they won the race!

Many years ago I was having my Porsche Carrera 2 `gone over` in the UK, the marque specialist declared it was sad that the 4 cam engine was not original to the chassis. The history of the car was impeccable so I was somewhat perplexed and contacted Porsche Archive in Zuffenhausen, expecting a similar service to Alfa Romeo I was surprised by no response. A number of faxes later I was told this info was not available to the public; I responded with fotos of the car, registration in my name and my ownership history, still no response. So I phoned them up and spoke directly with the archivist - he stated this info is not provided, but upon my pleading, he relented to the extent of confirming the selling distributor, declining to name first owner only that he was important and that a fault developed in the engine under guarantee and the engine was exchanged under guarantee for the engine now in the car. I was relieved and asked him why they adopted this approach I was informed an important customer, special car without the necessary local skills to repair, replacing the engine was always the chosen option. Shame none of the generally available public documentation showed this detail!

A few years ago I was able to meet up with Sergio `Kim` Pedretti, the race driver who bought my SZ from Scuderia Sant`Ambroeus when surplus to requirements. I very gently remonstrated with him about the unnumbered engine block; he laughed and said in beautiful broken English how he had the choice of a number of engines, and should he have chosen the original or the best? Naturally he chose the best, so would I!

I feel blank blocks should never be restamped - even if correctly carried out - this is sacrilege for too many reasons I won’t go into.

Richard
 

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Discussion Starter #9
Richard, I fully concur.
Your points are extremely valid and the block shall remain numberless.
Besides, who are we fooling?

Thank you for the most interesting story about the Carrera...

Regards, Alberto
 

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Not a problem in my opinion

Hello Olaf,

When I 'found' my car, all it had was the front axle, steering box, and rear axle.
The body, you have seen what a disaster it was.

The block, and all sorts of other parts, I got shafted for them in Italy, mostly due to my gross lack of knowledge, but that's another story.
Now, I have all the proper parts, except the block has no numbers.
Is that an issue?

Regards, Alberto
Hello Alberto,

Sorry for the late reply.
In my opinion, an unnumbered block is no problem. As was said by other members in this thread, there are more unnumbered blocks and Alfa Romeo is known to supply engineblocks without a number. The stories in this thread support that Modus Operandi / Method of Operation.
You can explain why that specific block is with the car and what the origin is. I would leave is at that. Have fun with finishing the rebuild and driving the car!!

Ciao! Olaf
 
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