Alfa Romeo Forums banner
1 - 20 of 125 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,058 Posts
Discussion Starter · #1 · (Edited)
After getting my spider mostly complete, I decided it was time for a new project. Something more ambitious, yet familiar.

Window Vehicle Car Motor vehicle Automotive exterior

Automotive parking light Car Tire Wheel Vehicle

Tire Wheel Automotive parking light Car Vehicle

Plant Vehicle Car Tire Grille


I’ve been watching GT ads like a hawk for two years, almost pulled the trigger a couple of times, but couldn’t find quite the right candidate. I wanted a step nose with no drivetrain- a blank canvass- something that was never going to be all- original. Finally one appeared. It is a 1967 Gt. Jr. with no drivetrain and a rotten interior. A rolling shell.

Today was delivery day. I think it was fitting that it arrived on Easter. This one will rise from the dead!
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,058 Posts
Discussion Starter · #2 · (Edited)
The vision for the project:

Like many, I’ve been enamored with the Alfaholics GTA-R concept. Take the classic 105 and give it the performance and reliability of a modern sports car while keeping the basic character and purpose of the original GTA. While I respect those who preserve original cars, I think there’s also room for thinking of what Alfa and Autodelta could have done if a time traveler showed up with EFI, carbon fiber, and a CNC machine.

But within that vision, I don’t want to do exactly as Alfaholics have done and make a super light twin spark version. This one is going to be designed within the realities of long straight Texas highways and 80 mph speed limits where an original GTA would be droning along at 4,000rpm. A T5 ford racing gear box will supply the .63 OD gear necessary to get the revs down.

I’ve done a turbo Nord, but I’ve decided for this build, there will be no replacement for displacement. A 3 liter Busso will be the order of the day. Not just any 3 liter, but as hot as I can get away with in a street car and run with modern EFI and ITBs. Current plan is to stick with a 12v due to availability, sound, cost, and the fact that a hot 24v is too much power in a 105 (did I really say that?). While I hope it will make very healthy power, the motor will be as much about the sound and feel as power. As such, I’m looking for something (relatively) high revving and built with a little more focus on top-end power.

One criteria is that this car will not weigh more than it did stock and maintain as good or better weight balance as the original. I will be looking at ways to “add lightness” that do not compromise the form or function of the car as a street car.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,058 Posts
Discussion Starter · #3 ·
And for the reality of where it sits today: it’s not a rust free shell. Does such a thing exist anymore?

The uglies:

Brown Amber Orange Paint Brick

Automotive lighting Tire Automotive tire Liquid Fluid

Automotive tire Motor vehicle Hood Tread Synthetic rubber

Automotive tire Motor vehicle Automotive lighting Tread Road surface


Floors are gone, there are some miscellaneous rust spots here and there, and I’m concerned about the driver’s side rockers/sills. However, the car is not a complete rust bucket (so far as I can tell on this initial inspection), and key structural parts seem to be solid. As someone who has never done this sort of work, I know I will have my work cut out for me (literally in this case). But learning something new is half the fun of these projects.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
566 Posts
Perfect candidate for a restomod . No one can ever accuse you of spoiling a car !
 

·
Moderator
2015 Chevy (Holden) SS, 1989 Milano (Shankle Sport), 1991 164S
Joined
·
18,562 Posts
Or, it could be a complete restoration such as Pete in NZ is doing. Restomods never end up being worth anywhere near as much as a full restoration.

Always dreamed about doing such a restoration on an early stepnose. Saw one like this for sale a few years ago, complete, with almost no rust in comparison, just old and sitting for years. Even had the original chromed one piece bumpers, and tires, etc. Came sooo close.

With a V6 in it, this should be an interesting project.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,058 Posts
Discussion Starter · #7 ·
Or, it could be a complete restoration such as Pete in NZ is doing. Restomods never end up being worth anywhere near as much as a full restoration.

Always dreamed about doing such a restoration on an early stepnose. Saw one like this for sale a few years ago, complete, with almost no rust in comparison, just old and sitting for years. Even had the original chromed one piece bumpers, and tires, etc. Came sooo close.

With a V6 in it, this should be an interesting project.
I don’t think restomods “never” end up worth as much as a restoration. Some of the highest 105 prices commanded on Bring a Trailer have been restomodded cars. I think this would be particularly true of a Jr., which command lower values in restored stock form even though the cost to restore would be the same as a Veloce of the same year.

Anyhow, this isn’t being done with resale in mind. I hope to have it for a long time after it is done. This is being built to drive!

I’m also less interested in restoring to stock as there’s much less room for creativity. You are a slave to what was done originally. Plus, a nice stock one can simply be bought. What I’m planning on can only be built.
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
1,146 Posts
Sounds like a solid plan, build what YOU want. If you need any tips on the swap or T5 install, let me know. Also with the floor pans
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,479 Posts
I don’t think restomods “never” end up worth as much as a restoration. Some of the highest 105 prices commanded on Bring a Trailer have been restomodded cars. I think this would be particularly true of a Jr., which command lower values in restored stock form even though the cost to restore would be the same as a Veloce of the same year.

Anyhow, this isn’t being done with resale in mind. I hope to have it for a long time after it is done. This is being built to drive!

I’m also less interested in restoring to stock as there’s much less room for creativity. You are a slave to what was done originally. Plus, a nice stock one can simply be bought. What I’m planning on can only be built.
The restomods that hold value tend to be those that follow a tried and tested path of either replicating in-period modifications or those of a noted modern rebuilder. If you look at the air cooled Porsche market, RS replicas or Singer clones do well. V-8 swaps do poorly.

In the Alfa world, going deep into the Alfaholics parts catalog will pay off with a GTV. Swapping in a Busso may not.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,058 Posts
Discussion Starter · #10 ·
The restomods that hold value tend to be those that follow a tried and tested path of either replicating in-period modifications or those of a noted modern rebuilder. If you look at the air cooled Porsche market, RS replicas or Singer clones do well. V-8 swaps do poorly.

In the Alfa world, going deep into the Alfaholics parts catalog will pay off with a GTV. Swapping in a Busso may not.
Fair point that known paths are likely to produce the highest value. But the plan is in fact to go pretty deep into the Alfaholics catalog. There are certain items for which they clearly have the cleanest and best developed solution (things like a boosterless balance bar setup that retains the factory standing pedals), but others where the pricing is excessive and the benefits are going to be minimal (titanium suspension bolts). There are also things for which I want to develop my own solution for the fun of it. For what it's worth, Alfaholics DID do a Busso GTA-R (albeit actually a "Spider-R"), so I'm not too far off the beaten path.

Ultimately, however, I think the most important thing in determining what the project would be worth financially will be the quality of the work and the cleanliness of the install. But none of that matters in terms of what it would be worth to me.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,058 Posts
Discussion Starter · #11 ·
Getting into the nuts and bolts of the project:

Thoughts/experiences on sand/soda/media/vapor blasting? Seems like a good blasting is the best way to find all of the rust on the car. But it also sounds like it can be a perilous process with potential for a bad operator to warp metal, or in the worst case can cause the paint to eventually fail.

There are some services around here that claim they will do mobile vapor blasting. Any reason not to use such a service? It would be nice not to have to drag the shell around.

What about primer? I understand that it needs to be done within ~48 hours of blasting. What type of primer should I use for a project like this, keeping in mind there will be a decent bit of metal work to do that will take a long time? Is there a conflict between those considerations and paint compatibility?
 

·
Moderator
2015 Chevy (Holden) SS, 1989 Milano (Shankle Sport), 1991 164S
Joined
·
18,562 Posts
And even primer doesn't provide good protection, it being porous. Cars which have been primered and then left sitting for a while can sometimes start to develop surface rust if not painted soon.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,430 Posts
Epoxy primer would be my choice, paying particular attention to surface preparation requirements in the manufacturer's technical data sheet. Not sure what you are asking regarding length of time vs paint compatibility. You'll need to respray metal repairs as you go and almost certainly you'll need to sand and reapply primer before you begin final prep for paint.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,058 Posts
Discussion Starter · #14 ·
Epoxy primer would be my choice, paying particular attention to surface preparation requirements in the manufacturer's technical data sheet. Not sure what you are asking regarding length of time vs paint compatibility. You'll need to respray metal repairs as you go and almost certainly you'll need to sand and reapply primer before you begin final prep for paint.
Yes, I was more thinking of potential compatibility between primer used after blasting, pre-paint primer, and the color coat. Sounds like some sort of two-part epoxy primer after blasting is the way to go.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
4,474 Posts
Well, to quote Flounder in the movie Animal House, "Oh boy this is gonna be GREAT!"

Having seen a 105 GTV with a very sanitary and well executed Busso V6 transplant, you are indeed in for a project. But you know that, I'm sure. Best of luck, we'll look forward to watching your progress, and build what you will enjoy and hold onto. (y)
 
  • Like
Reactions: SamSteinig

·
Premium Member
Alfa Romeo GT Sprint 601507
Joined
·
2,215 Posts
That's some tough sledding but worth it....
 

·
Moderator
2015 Chevy (Holden) SS, 1989 Milano (Shankle Sport), 1991 164S
Joined
·
18,562 Posts
Oh, sweet looking, just like the one I used to have decades ago. That's why I do like unmodified restorations. Once modified, that gorgeous look is gone forever. The V6 engine would be interesting to drive, although even my original 122hp engine was nice enough for that chassis. Lol, I saw Carlo take it to 9k rpm at least once, with no harm, he hving put his touch on it. Such a sweet engine.

Still, good luck with your style of restoration. I'm sure you will enjoy it.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,430 Posts
Yes, I was more thinking of potential compatibility between primer used after blasting, pre-paint primer, and the color coat. Sounds like some sort of two-part epoxy primer after blasting is the way to go.
Good thoughts. I think two-part epoxy is the best answer, provided there aren't any compatibility issues between your chosen brand and your blasting method. I seem to recall at least one epoxy primer that is not compatible with soda blasting. The point is to do the research and avoid trouble.
 
1 - 20 of 125 Posts
Top