[alfaspence]

Hi everyone, when i embarked on this project i wasn't expecting things to get this complicated but never mind!
i thought i'd start this thread instead of harrassing people dirrectly, i appreciate time is money, and i don't want to inconveniance anyone so people can post their views etc at own leisure....

My car is a std (apart from 15x7j compmotive mo wheels) 1989 3ltr 12v veloce (r/h drive) minus engine! (as it gave up 4 weeks ago)
My goals with this car is to make it a good reliable fast road car, to look good, remain practicle and able to do the odd shop run (i have a baby on the way in 5 months!)
With regards to suspension, i plan to lower it around 30mm, use koni yellow shocks, fix the bushs up with nylon items and have an oversized rsr antiroll bar up front.

As the std brakes are far from ideal, i plan to use grooved front and rear discs, std calipers at the rear but with 4 piston brembo items up front (mounted on adapters)

Thanks to my wife, the interior is being retrimed (front seats are recaros) inc door cards and headliner but no plans for a roll cage as yet but could be persuaded but no side bars (request from wife)

I have been told to use a t spark gearbox (2ltr lsd) as it has lower ratios but iam still scepticle of the idea... Either way (i have both gearbox types) i need to have a rebuilt gearbox as the original is very heavy to shift despite have a sloppy feel on the stick (ive tried various solutions to improve it whilst it was up and running with no success)

My propshaft is knackered.... but i plan to have a "one off" made as original parts are getting hard to source and i suspect due to the power of the new engine and my driving style ill keep breaking the std item!

Now down to the engine.... hmmm..... its a 93/94 164 24v auto lump, with only 46k miles on it!! i was planning to run it as std with its original motronic eng managment system.
Now the messy bit, something i wasn't expecting.... ive since realised after being advised, the engine has got to be pulled down to have balancing work done so iam going to gas flow the heads whilst its apart
i really want to run a stand alone ecu (the door opens to increased power and intake options that way) but i can't find a cheap option (budget of only £3k to do whole car)

any suggestions ideas (inc anymore possible hurdles) etc greatly appreciated

 

[75evo]

Why does the engine need to be balanced? The factory's balance is already very good. For a budget fast street car, I don't think you should do this unless something is seriously wrong with your engine and you need to rebalance it.

 

[lenus]

If you want a budget fast road car, buy something japanese.


lenus.

 

[SamW]

I think you are on the right road with the 24v V6, but read some of the posts of the mods that need to be done to the engine to get it to sit in a RWD chasis, AR4me used a 12v 164S motor in his milano and had to make some needed mods to get it to work, so that money will need to be spent. I am guessing that you are balancing everything since you are going from a FWD auto flywheel to a RWD 12v flywheel, are you going to use the Milano front pulley to keep all the Milano acces?

I am running GoTech standard ($700-$800 USD??) on my 12v 3.0 and I like it, easy to tune, but for the 24v motor, you may want to go with the Pro. But for the money, you may want to stay with Motronic if you have access to all the wiring and stuff for the 24v motor, plus I think there are other options for motronic which makes it better than the L-jet stuff.

 

[junglejustice]

Hey Spence - sorry - I wasn't trying to imply that you were "bothering" me in any way by posting in my thread - I was simply suggesting that you start a new thread, so that we can all look at your project and provide specific input, based on your needs!

Email me directly with questions ANY TIME - [email protected] - or call me here in the US at 091 425.941 4747 and we can chat more. Any way, this is good - now we know where you are on your car;

On the brakes and suspension my suggestion would be to spend some time researching what is out there and set your goals on what you would ultimately want (even if you have to do it piece by piece!) Look at complete, turn-key, TRUE bolt-on options - specifically engineered for these cars! Modifying to fit is one thing. Engineered as a balanced setup or spec'ed out and planned from scratch (from a front/rear bias stand-point), is quite another!

Just because you can, doesn't mean that one should! For example, much has been written and argued here about engineered brakes versus modifying to fit brakes from Porsches, Volvos etc. Much has also been argued here about the validity of bolting on more advanced components such as coil-overs, versus "fixing" things such as roll-centers via modified drop-spindles etc.

At the end of the day, I have personally burned THOUSANDS of dollars on different setups, only to arrive back at a final investment in a good brake and suspension setup (that is truly remarkable!) I sometimes whish that I could have the money back that I wasted on trying different things along the way.

 

[junglejustice]

I know that budget is an issue (you can spend that whole 3K Sterling just on brakes and suspension, have an awesome setup and no motor installed yet), so you are going to have to leg-in to it all - piece by piece! My suggestion is simply to go with pieces along the way that would comprise a complete setup in the end, of what you ultimately wanted to begin with!

If you have not purchased the Konis or the Brembos yet, consider doing the full RSRacing suspension in stages (you can buy it direct from Alex Jupe there in the UK, or just order it from Ron directly.) Here in the US Group 2 Inc is the agent, but that's going the long way for you. You don't have to do it all at once - Keep the stock torsion bars, do just the coil-overs and front bar for now for example - or - we have even had great success JUST doing the 30mm front bar and the Watts-linkage at the rear as a start!

Same with the brakes - look at www.girodisc.com and www.group2inc.com - they offer and amazing bolt-on setup that gives you floating aluminium hats, front AND rear (with the rears now also vented) and here I would start with the rears to get them working and make the thing balanced a bit!

You can do just the front anti-roll bar, the rear RSR shocks and springs and Watts and the rear G2/GiroDisc brakes for a little over 1,200 pounds and have HUGE fun already! You inspect and clean the front brakes for now, tighten up the front suspension a bit - make it safe - and stop there until you have the cash to do the front coil-overs, the front brakes, the rear anti-roll bar and the castor-rod conversion as a 2nd phase!

On the motor, Sam offers a good suggestion; the GoTech is a very affordable, fully-programmable professional stand-alone engine management system (that you can have for peanuts as compared to Motec, Autronic etc.) The middle of the road "Pro" version is right for your motor. The beauty is that with your 24 valve engine, you already have the 60 minus 2 (60-2) crank-pulley timing ring-gear on there and there should be a Bosch crank-angle sensor already mounted to the motor (down on the left-front!) The GoTech Pro comes with a custom harness that plugs right in to it!

If you don't already have the coil-packs, you can just run some Alfa 155 coil-packs - mounted remotely away from the vibration and heat of the motor! The GoTech comes with a good starting map for your motor! Later on you can do cams, larger intake runners and bring it up to 260-270 horsepower without even opening it! The beauty is that the GoTech can be mapped along the way to compensate for modifications to the mechanical unit - even turbos or suspercharger or big-bore rebuilds etc!

I have some custom headers available to fit that motor in the transaxle chassis!

Also, you don't need to rebalance the motor! Unbolt the 3 litre 12 valve Milano Verde/75 Americano flywheel from the back of your blown motor, bolt it directly on to your 24 valve motor! (Just use longer NEW high-tensile flywheel bolts and you're done!) Bolt your starter and tail-housing on - put power to it and make sure that it engages! Then it is on to the oil-pan, oil-pump and intake plenum conversion!

What you should end up with is something that looks kind-o like this...

 

[AR4me]

So, we have passed 10,000 members on the AlfaBB, so you probably have about 10,000 opinions on what to do. Anyway, here is one of them. Given that you have a "limited" budget, I would:
1. Leave brakes completely stock, but with good pads and fluid.
2. Do every single suspension bushing and tranny, engine, etc. mount.
3. Rebuild shift-linkage (Performatek).
4. Use completely stock 3.0 24v engine, including Motronic if you have all the pieces (matfo on alfagtv6.com has a thread related to putting a 24v into his gtv6).
5. Do all oil seals on the engine while it is out (unless you know for a fact that they are good).
6. Use rebuild stock drive shaft + components, and drive it smoooooooothly.
7. Since your goal is a reliable car, I would suggest focusing on mechanical rebuild. Just the maintenance items will eat your budget quickly.
8. If you have money left I would do Ron's RSR 4 corners and the front sway bar.

If you are bored after all that work you could start doing some of all the other upgrades.

Jes

 

[75evo]

Jes' suggestions are spot on.

 

[alfaspence]

If you want a budget fast road car, buy something japanese.


lenus.

my friend has a nissan 300zx, which is 3 years newer than my 75... it has more rust, worth less money (once my 75 is finished) and has no character whatsoever
japanese? and be like everyone else in their soul less cars where i live? just another evo or scoobie? or civic? NO CHANCE!!

 

[alfaspence]

to start with, thanks everybody for your input, ideas etc
i wasn't going to have the engine re balanced until i took my flywheel to my machine shop to be lightened..... where he told me that id mess up the balance factor because of the miss matched flywheel/front pulley combo...
i wish to use the original 164 front pulley (it has the all important timing wheel attached) which is different to the 12v milano pulley.