Alfa Romeo Forums banner

1 - 20 of 57 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
889 Posts
Discussion Starter #1
My 1965 Alfa Romeo Giulia Spider Veloce had repairs done to the trunk floor which removed the six digit number usually found on the trunk floor just in front of the tower that holds the trunk latch mechanism. I am trying to find out what my number should be. Correlating my AR390381 number with others close to mine, I think the Pininfarina number should be 106850 or 106851.

Does anyone else out there in Alfa Land have either of these numbers stamped into their trunk floor? The reason I say 106850 or 106851 is that my trunk and hood lids are stamped 850 and 851, even though they should be the same number, that is, the last three of the Pininfarina number in the trunk. (I have a theory that Luigi and Giovanni switched trunk lids on the assembly line for a better fit.)

Here's what my research has found so far:

AR390144 has Pininfarina number 105480
AR390277 has Pininfarina number 105814
AR390328 has Pininfarina number 106821
AR390381 has Pininfarina number 106851? :confused:
AR390778 has Pininfarina number 107263

Can you add to this list? Run right out to the garage and flip those rubber mats back and take pictures, please.

I realize that numbers and Alfas usually have no rhyme or reason, but I'm just trying to get close. I don't want to usurp anyone elses legitimate number.

Examples below.

Thanks.
Terry
 

Attachments

·
Super Moderator
Joined
·
11,213 Posts
You didn't like my pictures Terry? I give you permission to use my number if you wish. Mine is pretty well documented by now!
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
889 Posts
Discussion Starter #3
Gordon,

I didn't mean to leave you out; your pictures and documentation have always been very helpful. I just want to hear from more guys and try to determine whether 106850 or 106851 is in use in any other cars.

Here's a picture of Gordon's Pininfarina number to help others locate it in their trunk floors.
 

Attachments

·
Super Moderator
Joined
·
11,213 Posts
Hey Terry, use 107263! We both know about that one! Any other 107263's out there?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
122 Posts
Terry, further to my thread on the restoration of my Spider Veloce 390816, I checked the trunk floor and it is numbered 107285. The car was finished on 6.4.65 so that ties in with the data on the 107 series bodies

Here is a photo

IMG]http://i44.tinypic.com/w2k7eh.jpg[/IMG]

Regards
John
 

·
Super Moderator
Joined
·
11,213 Posts
Welcome to the BB Joe! Terry's list is interesting, isn't it?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
7 Posts
Trunk Number

No Terry, I do not know the build date. I assume from the serial number that it is a 1964. The car has been a racecar most or maybe all of its life starting with SCCA and then converted to vintage. I have owned it as a vintage racecar since 1999. The body is about 95% original with very little rust. The trunk floor is cut out for a fuel cell but was not cut back as far as the trunk number.
Joe
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
889 Posts
Discussion Starter #11
Joe,
I added your number also to a list I have send to Marco Fazio of Alfa Romeo Storico. He'll get back to me with the build date for your car and the others.

Gordon, there are only a few of us hard core nuts that would actuallt find this chart interesting.... I knew I could count on you.
 

·
Super Moderator
Joined
·
11,213 Posts
My guess is Chris B, and Papajam are watching too.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
122 Posts
Terry,

Am I right in assuming that with the advent of the Spider Veloces in 1964 there were no more Normales? In which case did the Normales have similar sequence Pininfarina numbers?

I guess where I'm heading is - is there a logical sequence of Pininfarina body numbers beginning with the 750s and rolling through to the final Spider Veloces? Or did other jobs such as the B24 Aurelia Spiders and Convertibles, for example, share in the overall numbering system?

John
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
889 Posts
Discussion Starter #14
John,

The Veloces were produced along with the "Normales" in 1964 and 1965. There is, of course, no official "Normale" designation, only the tipo 101.23 designation. In 1964, there were about 3700 101.23's built (AR 375024 - 378730) and 300 Tipo 101.18 Veloces (AR 390001 - 390300). In 1965 there were over 1800 Normales made (AR378731 - 379999 and 392001 - 392608) and about 800 Veloces (AR 390267, 390283, 390287, 390290, and 390294 - 391092). These numbers were sourced from Maurizio Tabbucchi's "Guide to the Identification of Alfa Romeo Cars". I can't vouch for anything Alfa Romeo being absolutely accurate, since he shows over 1200 Veloces made when common thought puts the number at 1091. I'm sure the Fusi books would not agree, either.

As for "logical sequence"? Let me stifle a laugh... Just when you think there is some logic in the Alfa world, the exception comes up to bite you in the butt. There does seem to be some general relative sequence in the Pininfarina numbers, but the sequence does not strictly correspond with the AR numbers. Note that there is also a Normale on the chart, 379687, that falls in the P number sequence. So, I would assume they were being worked on in the same factory floor at the same time, but not neccessarily on an assembly line like we picture Henry Ford had in mind.

I imagine a scene at the Pininfarina factory where Guido, Luigi, Pio, Giovanni, and Mario are all working on their respective builds at the same time. In my case, the trunk and hood P numbers are off by one. "Hey, Luigi, let me see if that hood fits better on this car; you can try mine." Mario, whose P number is lower, actually finishes up his body after Giovanni because he had too much wine at lunch, so his doesn't ship out until the next day. When they arrive at Alfa Romeo, who knows what order they are taken in from the lot and assigned AR numbers?

That's what makes these cars so interesting. They are hand made, for the most part, and full of surprises. I don't know anyone who can say they have them all figured out!

I don't have any of the Pininfarina numbers on any of the other models, so I can't answer your last question. Maybe someone reading this post will respond with the information.
 

·
Super Moderator
Joined
·
11,213 Posts
My thoughts exactly Terry.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
889 Posts
Discussion Starter #16
Revised Pininfarina Chart

I got the following information from Marco Fazio at Alfa Romeo concerning cars I did not have build dates for:

According to our documentation files, the chassis number AR 390144 originally corresponds to an Alfa Romeo Giulia Spider Veloce (101.18), manufactured on the 21st May 1964 and sold on the 16th July 1964 to Alfa Romeo Inc. Newark, USA.

The body colour is grey, with red interiors.
--------
According to our documentation files, the chassis number AR 379687 originally corresponds to an Alfa Romeo Giulia Spider (101.23), manufactured on the 17th June 1964 and sold on the 28th July 1964 to Alfa Romeo Inc. Newark, USA.

The body colour is black, with red interiors.
------
According to our documentation files, the chassis number AR 390287 originally corresponds to an Alfa Romeo Giulia Spider Veloce (101.18), manufactured on the 29th January 1965 and sold on the 1st February 1965 to Alfa Romeo Inc. Newark, USA.

The body colour is red, with black interiors.
------
According to our documentation files, the chassis number AR 390328 originally corresponds to an Alfa Romeo Giulia Spider Veloce (101.18), manufactured on the 30th March 1965 and sold on the 1st April 1965 to Alfa Romeo Inc. Newark, USA.

The body colour is yellow, with black interiors.
------
According to our documentation files, the chassis number AR 390148 originally corresponds to an Alfa Romeo Giulia Spider Veloce (101.18), manufactured on the 18th June 1964 and sold on the 18th September 1964 to Alfa Romeo Inc. Newark, USA.

The body colour is grey, with red interiors.


Yours, Sincerely,

Marco Fazio

Tel. +39 02 444 29 115
Mob +39 334 62 95 381
Fax +39 02 444 28 152

[email protected]

Alfa Romeo Automobilismo Storico
Centro Direzionale
Viale Alfa Romeo
20020 Arese (MI) Italy


I have revised the chart as follows:
 

Attachments

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
538 Posts
PF Trunk numbers

Claus Menzel was an Alfa Dealer in Germany during the last part of the Production of the Giulias. He asked me to tell you all that when he visited Pinninfarina at the time the cars being produced on the assembly line had consecutive numbers regardless of make, so one number could be an Alfa, but the next could have been on a Fiat or Maserati. The bodies were all being produced at the same time. Which is to say that the numbers may or may not mean any thing other than to tell you that your parts match your car.

Ciao,
Bill Gillham
Jefferson Oregon
 

·
Super Moderator
Joined
·
11,213 Posts
But the numbers are there Bill, that's what counts! As you know the Ferrari guys were really into the number game until they found out what we know know. I always enjoyed the assembly numbers INSIDE vintage Ferrari engines! (Transaxles, differentials, transmissions as well!)
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
889 Posts
Discussion Starter #20 (Edited)
Bill,
Thanks for the pictures. I can see AR*390186 quite well in the first picture, but I'm not so sure of the number in the trunk floor. My old eyes tell me it's 105611. Is that correct? I'm happy to see another of these cars come back to life!

I appeciated your information about the Pininfarina factory. That makes sense and would explain some of the gaps in the P numbers compared to the AR numbers.

Here is build information on that car:

According to our documentation files, the chassis number AR 390186 originally corresponds to an Alfa Romeo Giulia Spider Veloce (101.18), manufactured on the 9th June 1964 and sold on the 16th July 1964 to Alfa Romeo Inc. Newark, USA.

The body colour is white, with black interiors.
 
1 - 20 of 57 Posts
Top