[Juniorz]

Hi to all!

What about this '70s prototype JuniorZ Periscopio... far from Museo Storico, in Padova at the Zagato Car Club meeting last october. Suspensions from Alfetta (rear De Dion Axle), rear transverse 2000 engine, specific gearbox. Very poor information on the net.

 

[alfa_164s]

The car seems to have an optional cardboard option

 

[Takis]

It seems to me that the engine of this Junior Z is in the middle.
Takis.

 

[gtv2000]

It's indeed the Scarabeo 3. As the original Scarabeo, it has a transverse engine on top of the rear axle, but in this case with an Alfetta De Dion rear suspension, and an angled gearbox. The engine is on the other side compared to the 1966 Scarabeo.

The car was developped by Giuseppe Busso, and indeed the Junior Z body is more a camouflage than an intent to produce an alternative Junior Z.

I has been extensively described by Busso in an article published on Ruoteclassiche, not the reference at hand.

 

[dretceterini]

If it was developed, I think it would have done very well in rally racing....but I guess FIAT "corporate" decided to go with the Fulvias instead...

 

[67alloy]

Padova stand

Padova Italy 2006

 

[alfettish]

Appears similar to this Sprint with Ferrari engine.

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[gtv2000]

If it was developed, I think it would have done very well in rally racing....but I guess FIAT "corporate" decided to go with the Fulvias instead...

Wake up Stu, and have a coffee before posting... The Scarabeo 3 is a 1973-74 project, Fiat bought Alfa in late 1986...

 

[Alex]

I wonder what putting that engine in the back did for the weight distribution?!

 

[gtv2000]

I wonder what putting that engine in the back did for the weight distribution?!

Rear-biased of course. But the idea behind the first Scarabeo was mainly to move aft the driver's position, supposedly, following Nuvolari's and Sanesi's theories on car control, to help prevnting and controlling oversteer. Remember the experiment with a modified 159 in 1952, whose driving position had been moved behind the rear axle.

The Scarabeos 2 and 3 then reverted to a standard driving position.

 

[carlo]

I would like to bring up the question if the Periscopio isn't "Scarabeo 4".

There is no doubt about the first and second Scarabeo, but wasn't there also a Spyder version? (See Het KB#53 p70)

If so we would have to call it Scarabeo 4.

Btw, I somewhere learned that Bruno Bonini, the former curator of the Alfa museum found the abandonned Periscopio hidden somewhere in a corner. He then saved it from being wrecked, restored it and finally it ended in the museum

Best regards
Ciao Carlo

 

[rcess]

This thread has been very interesting for me. I saw the car in the Alfa Museum in 1991 and had no idea what it was. Now I know!

 

[gtv2000]

If so we would have to call it Scarabeo 4.

I reckon it would make sense, but I seem to remember that in his article Busso called it Scarabeo 3. I think that two of the earlier were mechanically identical, and from that point of view this is the third distinct version. I have to check back Busso's writing.

 

[dretceterini]

Wake up Stu, and have a coffee before posting... The Scarabeo 3 is a 1973-74 project, Fiat bought Alfa in late 1986...

Yes, I understand, but what then do you thnk was the reason the Scarabeo wasn't developed into a rally car?

 

[gtv2000]

Yes, I understand, but what then do you thnk was the reason the Scarabeo wasn't developed into a rally car?

'cause it was just a personal idea Busso as allowed to develop without any real scope.

 

[Shire_GTV]

In those profile pics i see an aweful lot of similarities with the Sud and following Sud Sprint.

 

[gtv2000]

In those profile pics i see an aweful lot of similarities with the Sud and following Sud Sprint.

Er... the body is that of a Junior Z. Refer to this thread for instance.

 

[alfettish]

I think Shire is talking about a natural progression to the sud and the sprint from the jumior zagato, styling wise. Is that right Shire?

 

[Shire_GTV]

Thanks Alfaettish. Yes, i was refering to what appears to be a progression of one design to the next.

(I can destinguish between a Jnr Z and a Sud!)

Maybe I need to be more articulate in my typing.

Cheers

 

[italiansedanman]

Are there any pics available of the mechanicals? It would be interesting to see and also - is anyone here familiar with the 1970's March F1 car that was reputed to have a 'transverse Alfa Romeo' gearbox? I read about the car in Motorsport a few years ago in the 'worst car I ever drove' feature which was taken that month by Niki Lauda.

I'd like to know more about the mechanicals in both cars!