[frosti108]

hi guys. 1995 164 LS V6 5 speed. only 68k miles. everything runs great, but the engine starts to get hot. i looked in the engine bay and saw that the eletric cooling fan is not spinning... is there a usual reason for this??

thanks!

also, these clutches are hydrolic or cable? is there a pedal adjuster? this one seems a little bit off but otherwise works great

thanks again

 

[Alfisto Steve]

Some light cooling fan reading for you and as for clutch it is hydraulic:

http://www.alfabb.com/bb/forums/164...4-cooling-fan-circuit-testing.html#post767496

http://www.alfabb.com/bb/forums/164...shooting-164-cooling-fan-system-part-1-a.html

 

[Alfajay]

In addition to the threads that Steve suggests, here's one that I started last summer when my fan motor died: http://www.alfabb.com/bb/forums/164-168-1991-1995/167193-cooling-fan-substitute.html

Diagnosing my dead motor was pretty easy - the fan blades were difficult to spin by hand - clearly the rear bearing had all of its lubricant cooked out by the front header, and the motor was binding up. Your problem could be something else (temp sensor, wiring, relays), so by all means to through the troubleshooting guide that Steve posted.

I chose to install an aftermarket fan, rather than repair my motor. Purists hated that strategy, but I figured that if the original motor only lasted 19 years / 120,000 miles, then I should try something different.

There's also a wealth of information on 164 clutches here on the BB. As a 164 owner, I predict that you will soon get very good with the BB's search function! In addition to the BB, another great 164 resource is at: http://www.digest.net/alfa/FAQ/164/notes0.htm

 

[elite38868]

Like others have stated, cooling fan motor toast or probably large fusible link on false firewall broken. Does the fan come on when you turn on the a/c?

 

[aralfa8589]

I've not looked at Steve's links yet, but unplug your fan and hook it directly to a battery (pull yours and take it up front or just jump from another car if you don't have a spare).
If it spins, problem is upstream. If not, you've found your problem.
Keep us informed, please.

 

[Alfisto Steve]

I've not looked at Steve's links yet, but unplug your fan and hook it directly to a battery (pull yours and take it up front or just jump from another car if you don't have a spare).
If it spins, problem is upstream. If not, you've found your problem.
Keep us informed, please.

Don't do that unless you have a spare wire harness with correct plug to fit fan motor. First off you can't get to connector without removing heat shield on motor and other end of cable is part of car's wire harness.

Read my instructions, check that fan blade will turn freely and that 40A fuse bar is not cracked and then ring out the system systematically.

 

[aralfa8589]

Didn't mean to step on any toes...like I said, I hadn't read the links. I removed the shield, unplugged the connector and tested the motor. It was shot. Larry at APE sent me one so that I was able to make the Tulsa convention on 2 day notice.

 

[Alfisto Steve]

No toe stepping problem, just feel it is pretty hard to test motor with direct hook up at motor safely without correct connector and wires.

I always check first that motor turns freely with no power, then check 40A fuse bar for cracks and then ground brown wire going to resistor in fan shroud and see if motor runs freely and doesn't have a squealing bearing.

 

[aralfa8589]

I have a bunch of jumper leads with assorted ends that makes 12V diagnostics pretty handy. I did little alligator clips to put the juice to the motor.
The manual motor spin test is primal. On an isolated (non-grounded except by wires) I like to test from the module/motor back.
Sometimes everything goes South and I get advice from the AlfaBB.

 

[goats]

guys this poster

seems to be a very newbie with very limited understanding of 164 specifically, and apparently no research on the site before posting. Not sure what his/her overall level or competence is. We need to ask/determine this poster's level of a) awareness of basic mechanical/electrical principles and troubleshooting/repair, b) accessibility of 164 24V documentation, and c) endpoint desires/ viewpoint before we can really help.

Whilst I know we are all eager to help, lets get a measure of frosti's overall car skills and then some idea as to how much he/she can help him/herself (via limited research) before we try to take a weekend golfer onto a pitch to summit Everest! (A "little" over the top (HA) but you get the point...)

Frosti, chime in here so we can get some understanding of 'where you are at' with this---???Thanks

 

[Alfisto Steve]

I notice he also has the car listed for sale on this BB.

 

[frosti108]

thanks guys for all of the help. i appreciate it. my skill level is high enough to do whatever i need, im the type of person who does exactly what aralfa does (connect it right to the battery) but i just havent gotten to messing with it yet so i figured i would ask the experts.

i usually mess with nissan sports cars. the alfa is just a friends car. thanks!

 

[frosti108]

ok. the fan motor is in good shape. works just fine with 12 volts straight from the battery. the 40 amp fuse bar is intact and reading 12v on both sides... i tried to follow steves guide and got pretty confused...

i was able to read 12 volts from the brown wire in the engine bay, and i grounded the brown wire and the fan came on.... also i checked the fan fuse under the steering wheel and got 12 volts there... oh, also checked ohms on the switch thing in the top driver side of the radiator. and it had a little more resistance than the pic in steves guide. i think his was .05 and mine was .08.

the whole cooling electrical system just seems kind of complicated for no reason... and i dont like how hot it has to be for the fans to kick on.

anyway, any suggestions? also my temp gauge is going in and out of consciousness. whats that about?

 

[Alfisto Steve]

If fan only coming on high speed at high temp then low speed resistor probably bad.

If you grounded brown wire and fan came on then possibly the low speed resistor in fan shroud is bad. Read it out with ohm meter to verify that. If bad, bypass it for further testing of cooling fan system.

Now to test radiator thermal switch circuit if resistor is bad, bypass resistor by jumpering brown and blue wire going to it and see if cooling fan comes on about 195F when low speed relay is grounded by thermal switch.

Also with a/c engaged after a bit when freon pressure builds up on high side (about 210psi) fan will come on when low speed relay is again ground by a/c trinary switch if bad low speed resistor bypassed.

You can also jumpered brown to black wire in white connector on trinary swtich on a/c receiver dryer behind false firewall to engage low speed fan relay.

As for your temp gauge define this "also my temp gauge is going in and out of consciousness." What is happening needle not working? Red dot coming on?

 

[frosti108]

If fan only coming on high speed at high temp then low speed resistor probably bad.

the fan doesnt come on at all. but where would i find the low speed resistor?

If you grounded brown wire and fan came on then possibly the low speed resistor in fan shroud is bad. Read it out with ohm meter to verify that. If bad, bypass it for further testing of cooling fan system.

could you please tell me where the low speed resistor is exactly? and what resistance should it have?

Now to test radiator thermal switch circuit if resistor is bad, bypass resistor by jumpering brown and blue wire going to it and see if cooling fan comes on about 195F when low speed relay is grounded by thermal switch.

your talking about bypassing the thing in the top driver side of the radiator? or the one in the bottom passenger side? im not sure which one of these things does what...

Also with a/c engaged after a bit when freon pressure builds up on high side (about 210psi) fan will come on when low speed relay is again ground by a/c trinary switch if bad low speed resistor bypassed.

so with the a/c on, the fan should always turn on soon after. and if the fan doesnt turn on, the low speed resistor is bad. but im still not sure where the resistor is.

You can also jumpered brown to black wire in white connector on trinary swtich on a/c receiver dryer behind false firewall to engage low speed fan relay.

but this will only work if the low speed resistor isnt blown out? where would i find replacement resistors?

As for your temp gauge define this "also my temp gauge is going in and out of consciousness." What is happening needle not working? Red dot coming on?

the temp gauge needle will read, and then it will drop off and not read. seems to be easily affected by revving the motor. thank you very much. i hope to clear this problem up asap!

 

[Alfisto Steve]

Resistor is in the top corner of cooling fan shroud in area in front of cruise control actuator and below relays bolted to top radiator support.

On 24v models the radiator thermal switch is in bottom right side below alternator.

As for resistance you either have some or if bad then an open no reading.

I don't remember actual resistance reading.

Check connections on sender next to timing belt cover - 2 wires wider terminal for gauge needle and narrower one for red overtemp dot.

Black ground wire bolted to mid housing sender screwed into is ground for red light but it may also be for gauge on 24v models.

 

[frosti108]

could you point me toward the best place to buy things like resistors and temp switches for this car? thanks!

 

[frosti108]

ok fan works while jumping the ac trinary switch. the resistor seems fine. seems that the temp switch and or its pigtail wires are the culprit. thanks steve!

oh and the temp gauge failure was due to a loose wire on the temp sender, just as you suggested. thanks steve!

 

[Alfajay]

could you point me toward the best place to buy things like resistors and temp switches for this car? thanks!

By "temp switch" I assume you mean the thing that screws into the radiator, and tells the relays & fan motor when to come on. There is a discussion at: http://www.digest.net/alfa/FAQ/164/notes_07.htm#sender that suggests substituting a Volkswagen Golf switch for the Alfa part. The VW switch is less expensive, more readily available, and switches on at lower temperatures. I found one at my local German import car parts supplier (Mesa Performance in Costa Mesa, Ca.). You have to cut the wires off your Alfa switch, and crimp on connectors that attach to the terminals on the VW switch - pretty simple.

Note that these switches really contain two separate switches: one for low temperature and another for high temperature. The first turns on the fan through that resistor, producing low speed operation. Then if the coolant temperature continues to rise, the second switch turns on the other relay that bypasses the resistor, producing high speed.

Note also that that connector on the fan motor, behind the head shield, is another possible failure point. The plastic the connector is made from tends to melt, producing an intermittant connection.

Dunno where you would find a replacement resistor. Not sure if they are available new. APE might be a source for used ones.

 

[Terry PK]

I am having cooling fan problems too. However, when my mechanic got under the hood to find out what was wrong with it, it had been wired strangely by someone in its past, which is apparently a common fix. Now it is not working at all, so tomorrow it is going to another mechanic to sort it out and hopefully repair it without too much fuss.
The 1991 164L is my first project car ever. Perhaps it is a little difficult, and I am going to have to learn much with it, but I like the 164, always wanted one, and regardless of my skill with cars-- never actually worked on one AT ALL-- I am going to save this Alfa from the junk yard, or go broke trying!