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Discussion Starter #1
This subject has probably been covered before but has anybody successfully fitted a non std (donuts replaced by u.j's) propshaft to a milano/75 before?
2 of my donuts have seen better days and also my centre bearing, alltho they are still available.... just
i was wondering considering the big h.p engines people on this forum have fitted does anybody upgrade their transmission ie props?
I want to do it, ive found a company who will make the prop for me but ive got to make the adaptors myself!
Has anybody done this before or whats the general view of this particular mod?
 

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I have had several experiences with Dounts and drive Shafts and investigated alternatives, but not come up with anything economically viable. I Looked into molding the coupling in Nolathane type material,but weas advised against it. The solution is to keep the Couplings clean, ie oil contamination free and they should last. Avoid rapid acceleration from standing starts etc. I know this makes for pretty boring driving, but in order to make them last, it appears the only way, happy motoring!!
 

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Richard Jemison
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Ujoint driveshaft

I want to do it, ive found a company who will make the prop for me but ive got to make the adaptors myself!
I had the ones below made for my old GT2 car. Engine end & transaxle end. Takes Spicer u-Joints. :eek:
PM if interested $150.00
 

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Richard, a few questions (of the non-loaded kind :D);

Did you then eliminate the rubber at both ends, but kept the center rubber with this setup?

Does all of this bolt directly to the stock drive-shaft? Which one?

Does this run with the large center donut or the thin center rubber...?

How much vibration did you experience?

Any premature effect on the U-joints or does the setup require you to align the motor and transaxle?
 

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Richard Jemison
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U-joint Driveshaft

These were designed & used as a one piece driveshaft that fit six cyl. flywheel design, using a 6 cyl type front section slip joint, with it`s 2 3/4 inch tubing size (use the thicker wall driveshaft tubing or .090 Cr Moly) back to the transaxle.

No vibration but noisy at idle when the two flywheels are being accellerated by slow & irregular power pulses.

Input from transaxle and engine crankshaft was aligned in forward and horizontal axis, but in different planes (levels) to allow u-joint compliancy.

I would think it would be better using center Giubo on street car to absorb idle noise. But one piece is far lighter..
 

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Discussion Starter #6
Sorry to drag this up and after so long!!! Richard i may be interested in the rear adaptor yet!
I,ve since inspected my propshaft and found my center support has had it! (that'll be my vibration then) But.... i have the 55mm size! since phoning eb spares, the nice man tells me i can have 52mm but 55's are no longer made! Bummer!
I,ve also since spoken to the company who i was going to have make me a new propshaft about the possibility of have a different center support.... They are not to keen on the idea now...
As soon as i utter the four letter word "ALFA" people seem to switch off and don't want to know... if i were to say "COSWORTH" they would be like, sure what would you like!!!
Now for the big question... a while back i heard rumours that alfa corse used a company in the U.K for making the propshafts on the imsa 75's! Does anyone know the name of the company who did this work??
(My wife has kindly increased the budget on my car so i can take care of the propshaft issue i have properly and permenantly)
 

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Spence,

Not sure which company you're dealing with, but have you tried Bailey Morris in St Neots? Their phone number is 01480 216250. Reco-Prop in Luton might also be worth trying, can't find their number on my file though ...

Alex.
 

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It is a common for racing GTV6's or even Alfettas (if serious) to modify the existing 2 piece driveshafts and replace all rubber couplings with CV joints.

They work perfectly, but are a little noicy I believe. A CV joints is superior to a UJ ... that is what I would do, OR I would simply modify a driveshaft (from a wrecker) to accept a rubber coupling used in a more modern car (surely some cars still use these?) ... it's just engineering. Most driveshaft companies should be able to do this for you, or a race shop, etc.

Pete
 

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Discussion Starter #9
Spence,

Not sure which company you're dealing with, but have you tried Bailey Morris in St Neots? Their phone number is 01480 216250. Reco-Prop in Luton might also be worth trying, can't find their number on my file though ...

Alex.
Bailey Morris!! thats the one i couldn't think of!! ive contacted Reco prop but they didn't seem too keen on the idea of what i wanted to do! Thanks Alex!

Pete, i didn't realise you could use cv joints in this type of application,(only because ive never seen it done on a front to rear prop) but it seems a good idea! worth a go but will the boots hold the grease in at top end rpm??!!
 

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I know CV have been used. but I would think a boot would be bad. as flops it is going to fling to one side and throw off the balance
I would think you would want some sort of ball seal. the seal on my 53 jeep is like this.
but the ball does not spin on the jeep. the ball seal is good to this day. the boot is a joke to save a few cents.

I have seen 2 types of CV some will let the shaft also move in and out some and there is a type that will only bend.
I would think you would want one of each?
but I am thinking more and more that the torque tube is the way to go.
as that is the system used by almost everyone else.
if i run across a corvette 6speed with the tube I might try the whole setup some day.
just think easy shifting and a extra gear.
 

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The tube has a shaft inside. The tube keeps the alinement true so there is no need for a bendy part. as a rule they do still have a rubber part. but it is only used to take up shock not to bend. think of the 400hp V8 here no problems.
also they have the clutch up front.
the drive shaft inside seem to be very small more like a axle
 

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Discussion Starter #13
Aaaah! thankyou for sharing that, seems a mutch better idea than what alfa used then! The more iam told about these things (thanks slyalfa,jj) the more i can see how flawed alfas design is for high bhp aggressive driving style!
 

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Aaaah! thankyou for sharing that, seems a mutch better idea than what alfa used then! The more iam told about these things (thanks slyalfa,jj) the more i can see how flawed alfas design is for high bhp aggressive driving style!
I wouldn't say alfa's design is flawed, especially for an old car. 75/Milano's can be driven aggresively but treat them with respect, don't drive them like an old bucket that's only good for wrecking rear tyres. Use the throttle smoothly and change gears smoothly, don't just lay your boot in and yank the gear stick. Once you experience driving an alfa as it is meant to be driven, you will find it is very rewarding and very hard to be satisfied by anything else, in my experience anway.
 

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I'm sure that what he means by "flawed" is what we have ALL accepted as a weak-link in the Alfa... The donuts are a joke.

I hate Vettes (and their image) and yet - you can rev up the Vette, (or any of the 928, 924, 944, 968 transaxle Porsches for that matter), side-step the clutch and lay rubber (without worrying about pissing off the rubber-gods!)

As much as I LOVE Alfas and the TA cars - let's face it - any system that one needs to "go easy on", or that needs to be "treated gingerly", or "with kid-cloves", or "handled with care" or "respected", is inherently - well - yes - I dare say - flawed... :)

Any way - let's not start a pissing match here on what I just said - OK? :rolleyes: It is what it is - we all love the Alfas, but there is a reason why the Germans dumped the GUIBOS on the 928 transaxle test-setup 10 years earlier!!!)

We on the other hand, are stuck with it.
 

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Richard Jemison
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driveshafts

[QUOTESorry to drag this up and after so long!!! Richard i may be interested in the rear adaptor yet!][/QUOTE]

Spence, did you get the long responce to your PM I sent? I can`t pull it up.... You might share that info with the group. Easier than me trying to remember ...:eek:
Richard
 

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Pete, i didn't realise you could use cv joints in this type of application,(only because ive never seen it done on a front to rear prop) but it seems a good idea! worth a go but will the boots hold the grease in at top end rpm??!!
Why not?

They are used on axles and axles at high speed spin around pretty **** fast :).
slyalfa said:
I know CV have been used. but I would think a boot would be bad. as flops it is going to fling to one side and throw off the balance
Why would the boot "flop", they are pretty rigid, and also centrifugal force would ensure they are pushed out.

Anyway they work perfectly ...

And I also agree (again) that acknowledging the weaknesses of these cars is healthy. We do not want to be those car owners that defend their cars like the honour of their wife do we? ... man it's only a car!!!!!!!
Pete
 

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Spence,

As i said to you in the pm with what is currently available and with in a decent enough budget the way to go for road use in my opinion would be to have an adaptor plate made to mount on to the 3 prong thing on the front of the box that is connected to a uj then solid tube through to the centre bearing, from here i would retain at least one doughnut, they are easy to replace and not expensive this will keep the vibration noise down. I have included a couple of pics of my prop(sorry they are not closer and clearer) mine has the back half as ive just described but when it comes out of the centre bearing it goes into a splicer joint and then solidly to the flywheel where i have had another uj and adptor made and the flywheel modified to accept it. this has worked so far even with 600 ftlbs of torque, yes its all very heavy duty stuff that you wont need but the noise is horendous, i have a 3 inch side exit unsilenced exhaust on my car and the prop still sounds so bad. the reason why it has broke this time is actualy because of the vibration it has and the power it has caused the flywheel shaft out of the gearbox to shear in 2. after getting the whole **** thing tested and checked by an aerospace company it was caused by vibration.
the new route im taking is to have the design similar to the cosworth design as in the tube itself has rubber inside that keeps the vibration inside the tube and quiter but retaining my design. now my prop has so far cost me over £2k but a solid one end and retaining one rubber doughnit should probably cost no more that approx £500 Reco-prop are the ones actually doing mine, the guy you need to speak to is also Paul he seems fairly clued up on the 75 as he also does a couple of the 75 racers and gtv racers ones.

if you want strength and it to last probably longer then the car then you can get a copy of mine made up if you like but be prepared for the noise it makes. if you dont want the noise then i would suggest using the doughnut, although pm me as there is a guy who is designing a prop in the uk to incorporate cv joints and it looks promosing so far!


 

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Oh and please note this was a pic of the one that didnt fit due to the fact that i had to go up several sizes in tube diameter the splicer joint is now in the middle so that the tube doesnt rub on the bottom of the gear lever!!
 

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Discussion Starter #20
As much as I LOVE Alfas and the TA cars - let's face it - any system that one needs to "go easy on", or that needs to be "treated gingerly", or "with kid-cloves", or "handled with care" or "respected", is inherently - well - yes - I dare say - flawed... :)
The way i see it is if i have over 200bhp under the hood, why should i have to drive the car like it made of glass!? I want to be able to use the power if and when i want! That includes when some muppet pulls along side me at traffic lights in some jazzed up saxo or 300zx! i want to prove (in my part of the world anyway) that old Alfas deserve respect of being a fast street car!

We on the other hand, are stuck with it.
Hopefully not jj! If we all put our heads together (thanks paul alfaholic75) iam very confident we can come up with a viable, cost effective, reliable solution!

Lets face it, Alfa build good cars, amazing engines etc, why should we have to drive them like oap's? whilst everyone else with some "rice burner" etc gets to drive like they stole it??!!
 
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