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Discussion Starter #1 (Edited)
Alfa Romeo

You are a ghost of your glorious past.
It's all about how you perform today, and your company doesn't seem to be able to get it together.
It's like a government run bureaucracy. Where's your product?
Lots of unfilled promises.
Many product generations lost.
I love my Duetto, but most kids don't understand your lost verve. You were an very
exciting company, many years ago.
My money will probably go into a Spider V6 which Alfa should have done anyway.
Good luck on the much promised, slow to deliver, 4C
Porsche has it together. I wish you well, but...........
 

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But Mad North-Northwest
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Gubi: Oh, my God.
Dr. G: What?
Gubi: You're from the sixties.
Dr. G: Well, yeah, actually...
Gubi: Out! Back to the sixties! Back! There's no place for you here in the future! Get back while you still can!

(with apologies to "Field of Dreams")
 

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Push hard and live
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Alfa is the company of the future. It has always been, and always will be so.
 

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Discussion Starter #5 (Edited)
Lot's of Alfa 4C hype, not many rolling around. I can buy a Porsche this afternoon.

Gubi, don't put words in my mouth. Glad you can be a big supporter and cheerleader.
But until I see deliveries, you can hold your Alfa applause.

I called the "dealership," the response, "we'll put you on a waiting list."

When a fisherman tells me, "I caught this big fish," you could say, "show me the fish."

Or you can believe words and promises. It's more like Arnold's "I'll be back" as far as I can see. I got an Alfa at Stanford, as in college student. I don't see many present day college students being able to afford the 4C. Well, college students with Google, Oracle, etc. parents maybe. Not like I once was, working summer jobs, and bought an Alfa.

Show me the glorious products Gubi; you can say I'm a dinosaur when I see all the great promised future company products rolling down the road. Lot's of "we'll be back" in 2008, 2010, 2012, you get the idea. I see a lot of other companies real products rolling down the road, and Alfa "promises."

New Alfa Spider and Miata, there's another unfulfilled promise. I thought maybe the new Alfa Spider, promised, would resurrect that tremendous market we college kids had access to in the 60's and 70's, then that got "Sergio killed."
So Gubi, the company of the future statement doesn't hold water. Yet.

Alfa's at Fiat dealers; I'll wait to hear the stories from the customers about the service departments at FIAT. Poor service helped killed Alfa, along with products that weren't updated.

The glory racing and product days ended when the "Milano" was taken out in the 70's and the government split up the company for a job works project. Sure I'd like to see Alfa back, I don't see but niche promised products.



I've always been a big supporter, a real supporter; I drive the cars and keep them going. I just wish Alfa was more reality, not unfulfilled promises.

That's my "say what," "show me the money," every two year, "where's the Alfa," statement. Niche cars don't make a resurrected company, at FIAT dealerships no less.
 

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Hang in there Dr. G. I completely understand, as I too have to choke it back down from time to time. It takes time to establish a new product line, dealer support network, and re-establish an entire corporate culture. They'll be back with affordable innovation, performance and style. The difference between now and the stumbling, empty promises of recent past attempts is money. The funds needed to actually pull this off this time have been committed and are being expended. This means there is buy-in for a real resurrection at the highest levels of the corporation.
Keep up the faith, and enjoy your older Alfas until the new ones arrive.
PS delivery of our first 4Cs here are delayed from this month until October.
 

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The idea that Alfa was or should be only an inexpensive car is of course ill-informed. The duetto was as nearly as expensive as an E-type when new, and in the 1960's in addition to the regular line of cars, Alfa had plenty of VERY expensive autos for sale, such as the 2600SZ (around $50K in today's dollars), or the TZ-1 (around $65K in today's $), or the 33 Stradale ($111K in today's $). And of course pre-war, Alfa's were among the most expensive supercars. The new Alfa business plan is in fact quite consistent with the glory days of the firm's history.
 

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Push hard and live
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There is some argument that their addition of the Sud line in the 70's was a move toward the bottom. I recall it being a governmental initiative to create jobs, but resulted in big losses and distraction from what was their up-market niche.
 

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I think I see the problem Dr G - you didn't notice that Alfa reps had their fingers crossed back in the spring at NYAS when they said the 4C would go on sale in "mid-June".

"We were just kidding. Ha ha. We know our customers can take a joke. They'll be on store shelves in early August."

"Gotcha again!" This time it was the fingers on the other hand. September. No, I'm not taking my hands out from behind my back to show you."

Even at $55K for the SE, the car is probably being sold at a loss for its promotion value. Will Alfa ever go back to less expensive, everyman cars? What's "less expensive"? Compared to other cars with the same specs as 4C, I'd say it is not overpriced. Compared to the 8C, it's a veritable steal. The spider will be more $, as will the 6C. But these are halo cars that should not make up the bulk of the 140,000 vehicles Sergio wants to sell in the US by 2018. They cannot be, as they are all limited production runs of a few thousand cars - and last I checked, Alfa hasn't purchased the rights to the patent for the "loaves and fishes" thing.

Hopefully, the 8 new models which Alfa is supposedly developing (are you as sceptical about that as me?) will include more affordable but still enjoyable fare. But nobody is going to produce a car like 4C for a student's budget (unless the student is from Saudi Arabia).

So, I guess I am agreeing with your position, but since I don't have the personal history with Alfa that you guys do, I'm holding on to promise # 14, hoping their fingers aren't still crossed, and using the time to keep saving money!
 

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A relative newcomer here, so take my 2 cents for just that and nothing more but...

As a former Lotus Elise owner I can relate.

I was on the waiting list for my Elise for over three agonizing, exciting and at times super-frustrating years. Lotus coming "back" (with a New-to-the-US model) to the US was not easy, with all of the same questions of dealer networks, mandatory safety and emissions mod's, etc. It's not easy for the manufacturer, even a mega-manufacturer like Fiat, let alone a super-niche one like Lotus.

Only time will tell...hopefully it will come out better than it did for Lotus....fingers crossed !
 

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Lighten up?

Dr G, you've got to lighten up, man.
I dunno. We all cheer for Alfa revival. There's a lot of reason to be skeptical.

I'm curious whether the strategic powers at Fiat are really in tune with the American market, or have the fantasy of applying Euro sensibilities over here.

When I participated in a marketing survey sponsored by Alfa's marketing group, they kept asking how best to exploit Alfa's long and successful racing tradition. My expressed opinion was that there was no Alfa racing tradition in the minds of the potential buyers over here. Their response was along the lines of "well then, how do we exploit Alfa's long racing tradition?"

It seemed as though they had only a square peg, and were set on putting it into our round hole.

I like the possibilities of the 4C. Fingers crossed. It better be dead reliable, or they're doomed.
 

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I'm curious whether the strategic powers at Fiat are really in tune with the American market,....
I'd say that the strategic powers at Fiat have the American market absolutely nailed. They make huge profits selling Ram pickups and Jeep SUVs.

The puzzle for me is why they would want to get beaten up in the small/performance sector by introducing a new brand that has to compete with well-known, respected names like Porsche and Mazda.
 

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I dunno. We all cheer for Alfa revival. There's a lot of reason to be skeptical.

I'm curious whether the strategic powers at Fiat are really in tune with the American market, or have the fantasy of applying Euro sensibilities over here.

When I participated in a marketing survey sponsored by Alfa's marketing group, they kept asking how best to exploit Alfa's long and successful racing tradition. My expressed opinion was that there was no Alfa racing tradition in the minds of the potential buyers over here. Their response was along the lines of "well then, how do we exploit Alfa's long racing tradition?"

It seemed as though they had only a square peg, and were set on putting it into our round hole.

I like the possibilities of the 4C. Fingers crossed. It better be dead reliable, or they're doomed.
My answer to their question would have been to tell them to take a look at Porsche's fabulous "Family Tree" commercial, which they used to roll out the Panamera. Also to sponsor track days for new and existing Alfa owners a la the tremendous job Fiat/Chrysler SRT group is doing with new Fiat Abarth owners.
 

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I'd say that the strategic powers at Fiat have the American market absolutely nailed. They make huge profits selling Ram pickups and Jeep SUVs.

The puzzle for me is why they would want to get beaten up in the small/performance sector by introducing a new brand that has to compete with well-known, respected names like Porsche and Mazda.
Well said.

Some will say that Alfa has lost it's way, from being a "CAR company" to becoming a "car COMPANY". But that is the reality of business in this century. And I question how good it can be, in the latter category. So far, this "return", I'd not give it a passing grade.
 

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I hate to sound like a naysayer, but to be honest, I find the hoopla about the 4C to be completely uninteresting. My loyalty and interest is for cars that were made by an entirely different Alfa Romeo, one that isn't much reflected in the current iteration. There's no reflection of the original Alfa because there can't be. We'll never seen cars with the unique qualities of GTVs, Duettos, and Supers ever again. Similarly, I seriously doubt that most purchasers of 4Cs will have even a passing interest in Alfas from the good old days. And that's OK, I really don't expect them to. I guess I'm just not caught up in the wonderfulness of new cars, most of which seem to reflect a legislated sameness that robs even the expensive exotics essential characteristics that post-war sports cars enjoyed in abundance.
 

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Richard Jemison
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Alfa in the USA?????

I dunno. We all cheer for Alfa revival. There's a lot of reason to be skeptical.
Absolutely! Alfa has NEVER had an acceptable dealer / Service network in the USA. Never!!

Look at Fiat`s problems and shoddy dealer network, as well as the problems with the new Fiats. Google the "J.D. POWER 2014 U.S. Initial Quality Study (IQS) Fiat is the worst of all makes by an enormous amount.

The "Local" Fiat dealership is getting the Alfa dealership. :thumbdown:

This dealership is owned by the individual that has probably the most outstanding Toyota dealership, and Hundai dealership in south Ala and NW Florida. But the Fiat dealership is a joke. They are the 3rd owner of the dealership! Sounds bad, is bad!

I took my wife`s Genesis Coupe in for service and as a loaner they gave me a Fiat with 600 miles on it. This car was a terrible car for our driving conditions. I took it back without going 10 miles and they replaced it with another Genesis.
The Fiats are not selling and are being moved to the other dealerships as loaners. Shame but I won`t buy one for sure!

As for the New Alfa being dead on for our market? You will have to explain that to me!

Give some thought to the carbon fiber chassis. Who can fix them when damaged? Do you think the insurance companies are not up on this issue? What do you think premiums will be? They dam sure will be a multiple of the competition.

The Porsche Caymen is both better looking and proven quality and performance, with a service network 2nd to none.. Guess what make was the least problemsom on that J.D. Power Study! Yep, Porsche.....

Sad, but we have the old ones to play with...
 

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But Mad North-Northwest
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None of you deserve a 4C.

And the next guy who worries about either insurance or repairing the carbon fiber tub is gonna have his Man Card revoked.
 
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