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Alfa Romeo 2000 Touring Spider from January 1959
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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Dear all,

Can someone explain to me the logic of the oil sump gaskets for 102 Spiders? I have attached an example that I copy-pasted from OKP, but others appear the same. On the long sites there are series of holes that nicely align the bolts fixing the sump to the engine. On the short sides there are either four holes or four u-shapes cut-out. My engine has four bolts in the front, but the back (bordering the flywheel) has only two holes. These holes are for bolts that hold a metal strip pushing the middle part of the sump tight to the engine when fastened. Do I have a special engine that lacks two holes in the back?

If not, what is the function of the U-shapes? Why the extra holes/U-shapes for the back? How is the gasket oriented (holes or U-shapes in the front?)?

The construction seems to me extremely prone to leaking in the places with the extra holes/U-shapes. Are there any special tricks that people use, such as liquid seals?

Gr., Pieter

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I believe this is a recent, and possibly ill-considered, change.

The CI 2000 engine has only two holes at the rear, with the curved spreader-bar intended to reduce the leakage at the rear. I have a vague memory that the 1900 has a different oil sump which better allows access to this area, thus four bolts, the better to slow down the leakage. Others can confirm or correct my memory.

If so, this new design would be an effort by manufacturers to consolidate two parts into one, probably increasing the leakage at the rear of the already-challenged 2000.
 

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Alfa Romeo 2000 Touring Spider from January 1959
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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
Thanks Don,

Can you remember the orientation of the seal wrt where the holes and U-shaped sides of the gasket go with respect to the front and rear of the engine? In a first attempt, I have put it with the U-shapes in the rear, dry without any oil or fluid seal. The engine oil is poring out when the engine is running, exactly where the two middle U-shape cut-outs are.

Gr., Pieter
 

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Here is a oil pan gasket I just received from ClassicAlfa. It looks like someone put 2 extra holes on the rear. Get them to send you a good one..Mark
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Alfa Romeo 2000 Touring Spider from January 1959
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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
Hi Mark,
That is what I am looking for! .....and I can conclude simultaneously that the U-shapes should be in the front. That’s the good news. The bad news is that I have to get the oil pan off again. Do you use any liquid sealing with the gasket? Or soak it in oil first?
Gr., Pieter
 

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For the gasket I use the old style black tacky non silicone sealant. Just a light coat is good on both sides. The silicone stuff is a pain to remove. It shouldn't be torqued to much to deform the gasket. I set up bottle jacks on either side of the block and attached some thick metal tabs extending out from side pan holes once the pan dropped a little. This seems to work well and lift the engine enough for the pan to slip out.
 

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Alfa Romeo 2000 Touring Spider from January 1959
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Discussion Starter · #7 · (Edited)
Mark,

Looking at your post once more, it is only now that I see that this is the gasket with the four separate elements. I remember this corck-like gasket as part of the 'Alfa Romeo 2000 Spider complete gasket set'. I did not used them as I have a hard time believing that these gaskets will not leak from the corners where the elements assemble. Do you, or anyone else reading this post, have any experience with these gaskets? Is there a special way to make them tight in the corners?

Gr., Pieter
 

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Use Hylomar as a gasket dressing and you will have no leaks.... from them, anyway. Permatex makes a version of it. Developed by Rolls Royce to stop/prevent engine leaks. I've used this with great success over my last several rebuilds. It even helps stop leaks when spread on the outside (handy for repairs) Stays tacky too.

W/regards to the 2000 (and possibly 1900) oil pan. If its leaks you want to prevent you need to seal the INSIDE of the oil sump itself. It is a (by todays standards) a fairly complicated piece made up of several individual pieces that are then welded together. Its these weld seams where the oil can/will seep/weep from. Invisible to the eye except for the oil puddle! An expert on this model, his son, turned me on to this when, on my recently rebuilt and well sealed engine I kept getting a puddle of oil after driving. He tracked it down for me. Glyptol ?? isn't that what they use to seal the inside of an engine? Anyway, when I get around to pulling the pan, I'm going to "Glyptol" it....

Best of luck! Dan
 

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Dan, your right on about the leaky pan. I am going through this right now with it leaking at the seams even though visually all looks great. When buying this 102 it was assumed by all that it needed new rear engine seal since the oil grime was all to the rear. Since everything was going to be rebuilt, it was not an issue. The pan has now been removed and the seams have been sealed with very good epoxy. It looks like it solved it. Since you mentioned hylomar I will use the blue Permatex fuel resistant dressing and sealant #85420. I've used it before and it works well, but you have let it air out for several minutes before connecting parts. I believe also that it will solve the gasket joint issue.
 
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