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If they sell....

Not sure that it will sell fo the asking price.... but maybe they'll find a person willing to buy! MHO (if this matters) is that for the asking price I would be ready to hunt for a 105 sprint veloce and an osso di sepia... and get both ;)

KR

Thomas
 

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If they sell....

Not sure that it will sell fo the asking price.... but maybe they'll find a person willing to buy! MHO (if this matters) is that for the asking price I would be ready to hunt for a 105 sprint veloce and an osso di sepia... and get both ;)

KR

Thomas
Do you remember what the Car sales asking price was?
The add is now gone.
 

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I think it was around $105,000 AUD.
When it comes to values you have to factor in the racing success of the different models. I think that the GTAs were racing with some success in Australia in the 1965/66 period When the GTA's were phased out/not entered for some races leaving the GT Veloces to battle it out for 1967, (thus in effect denying the GT Sprints track time)
There is one version of the GT Sprint and there are three versions of the GT Veloce 1600. For Australians its the Bathurst race of 1967, then called the 1967 Gallaher 500 (miles).
Paul Hawkins(~29 years old) in a 1967 GT Veloce was in the lead until a stone pierced his radiator.
First place went to a Australian Falcon GT which won in 130 laps (photo is of a replica car). Second place went to another Falcon on 130 laps and third and fourth placed cars also on 130 laps were 1967 GT Veloces.
From documents it appears as though the three 1967 GT Veloces (third and fourth and Paul Hawkins cars) were all deep arch cars. I have not confirmed if they were Dunlop braked cars (version 1) or ATE braked cars (version 2), (my guess is they were ATE braked cars, version 2) given this was before the track was altered (shortened) along Conrod straight and improved braking was sought.

As to what the value of the GT Sprint's are say compared to this car's last listed price was at $105k? you have to carefully examine it. Like if the engine was rebuilt and the crank is at 20 or 30 or 40 thou then less life span and thus less value, if it's engine is in period 502 for the year. If it has it's correct brakes Dunlop, correct interior (and original colour) condition of the dash, correct gearbox, and diff etc. For the body work, correct bumpers, and correct door window triangles, correct doors. window winder mechanisms. etc.
 

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Like I mentioned in other threads, some cars are like works of art.

Here is some text I was sent recently not sure of the source.
"Muscle/Classic car sales in Australia are like fine art sales in Europe, its all about tax manipulation.
The original owner bought the car for ~$20k in the late 1980’s then sold the car for just over $1,030,000 (making ~$1k profit(less storage costs [bubble costs] and if driven maintenance costs) and under the current Australian tax rules will pay zero tax on the capital gain/increase…
if he/she had bought an investment house in the late 80s and sold it now and made the same $1m profit), he/she would have had to pay minimum $206k to the Australian tax dept.
But with muscle/classic car investments they pay $0 tax…

First the car is what its supposed to be.
There is a dilemma for replicas, the value of a GT Veloce replica made from a GT Sprint body has about 70% the value of a GT Sprint and about 50% of a GT Veloce (recent auction result). Where a full alloy GTA replica done well say from a GT Veloce could potentially have I think a 50 to 70% value of a GTA (given all the reproduction heads, pistons, valve train, magnesium parts and alloy panels etc)
Second can the car be used? so is it mechanical sound? If it's crank is at 20-30-40 thou you better keep it as a bubble storage car as the correct engines are quite rare as well as the original cranks.
Third if you are intending to pass the car onto family, then expect the car to be put through it's paces once they get their hands on it and any lack of knowledge can result in damaging the car like seizing the engine, then they will just on sell it for just a few $k or turn it into a hybrid car. Original or very close to original 105 car's can be valued based on an original car as that is the only constant from when they left the factory. Hybrid and modified cars can also be valued but their valuation is ad hock so you are not comparing cars modified in the same way with the same parts, just the same type of cars now hybrid and the modifications can vary in number and quality.
What am I saying every thing has value, it's just how the value changes over time that may or may not give you a capital gain.
Do your own research before you act on any of this information.
 

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Notice what the owner has done!

Step 1. They acquired the Certificate of origin in Italian.
Step 2. They made sure the car's interior, exterior and mechanical parts match the Italian Certificate of origin.
Following step 1 and 2 leads to
Step 3 $150k !

Of course the 1965 GT had numerous options for the interior in vinyl, and leather and they could have easily put say a black leather interior (which was a standard option), but they did not even do that as matching the car to the Italian Certificate of origin was very important to the owner, as it was just as the car came out of the factory! That's what you are paying for in $150k.
Some owners and some restoration specialists have moved on and are realizing what the Italian Certificate of origin can deliver for them:)

If you want a customized/hybrid car go to step 4
Step 4: Ignore steps 1 and 2 and skip step 3, go to step 5
Step 5: Turn your car into a hybrid car value ~$70k with a non standard interior and mechanical parts (recent auction result of a GT Sprint made to look like a GT Veloce 1600 sold for $70k)
Step 6: Sell your car for about half what a correctly restored car is going for!
..
I'm not saying every one in 2019 should use steps 1 and 2, all I'm saying is those owners that want to restore their car to original factory specs, you need to match it to the Italian Certificate of origin and don't get side tracked by miss information and end up at step 4, unless you the owner really want to be there from the start.

So for those owners restoring their car don't get caught out by letting your car drift into hybrid space unless it's a temporary stint (eg. like waiting on some original 15" steel wheels) as it will cost allot more of 'your' money to bring back your hybrid car to original status mechanically and for it's interior!

To quote Bill Joel
'Get it right the first time
That's the main thing
I can't afford to let it pass
You get it right the next time
That's not the same thing'

Regards Steve
 

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Yes, Dulio has done a fantastic job on this car and largely all his own work at home too. As he has viewed this solely as an investment return project from the very beginning, he is right on the money with the approach he has taken & done a lot of research & asked plenty of questions as he went to make sure as much a possible fitted the factory certificate description. I hope he gets what he is asking for it as surely for the standard of work effort he has had to put in, he deserves it. I've seen (slightly) lesser examples attain this sort of money so he should do well. It is without doubt a car I would love to own (but have too may already!)
I wonder where a person who's car doesn't & never did fit the official factory version stands? I know probably dozens of people over the years who have had a different description given by the factory archive to what their car is or ever was. Everything from paint & trim colors to build year....It's hard to understand how somebody can buy/own/drive a car that wasn't even made for 6 months into the future!! But that has also happened.
I can't say that personally any of my cars have not always come up as expected, but as I can say it certainly doesn't take too much looking to find erroneous factory archive descriptions. So the question is in such a case, would you change from original & "restore" to what the certificate says, or what the car originally always was?
 

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Ciao Steve,
Sorry but I don’t agree with your reasoning that only 105 restored to their original state get the $$$.
I’ve had bigger offers for my 66 and it’s a complete resto mod.
Check out recent auctions in the USA and resto mods are fetching the biggest sales.
If your restoring cars for a return, maybe originality is a safe bet, otherwise restore your car to whatever you want....don’t be a sheep!
 

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Restored cars have a bigger market when it comes to sell, so safe bet as you said, but how you get there is the interesting part!
Okay you got me! I've been holding out :)

Here is a hypothetical 'Big picture'
The 66 GT Sprint that sold about 10 months ago for ~$70k that had a complete GT Veloce 1600 make over
Purchased it $70k, then pull the Veloce parts off it
Then purchase your 66 GT Veloce for $160k(that offer more than $150k) then install the correct Veloce parts in it cost of $10k for labour and sell it for $170k also sell the hybrid parts for say $30k

Then install in the 1966 GT Sprint an original interior and running gear cost $30k(do you have some of the parts that suit? as it would cost less), then sell the 66 GT Sprint for $150k
(assumption all cars had the Dunlop braking system)
add it up
Spent $70k+$160+$10+$30
total $270k

got back
$170k+30K+$150k
total $350

Profit ~$80k+

But let's not focus on the $, but the pathway for the best resto/mods hybrid cars will end up back as original cars because 'Restored cars have a bigger market when it comes to sell, so safe bet as you said'
Do your own research before you act on any of this hypothetical information.
Regards Steve
 

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Ciao Steve,
We’re talking about two different planets.....the punters wanting to make a ‘quick’ buck and the pure Alfisti who like driving these cars.
I couldn’t give a rats arse on the punters and am only interested with real Alfisti. I suggest that you give Max @ Alfaholics a call and ask for pricing of their restored GTA-R’s, same as what Singer has done to Porsche. Alfisti should make their builds personal and specific to their needs.
Saluti
Sergio
 

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On the green car, i thought the bumpers should both have been the one piece versions....

Also, get rid of the stupid looking later steering wheel and put the original one back on for heavens sake...

Personally as i've said before i hope the car doesn't sell at that price, in fact i wish they (105's) were still affordable to the every day punter. I guess for those of us that have been playing with these
cars for 30+ years and remember the 'good old days' the 150k is obscene.

IMO there are better cars out there for 150k and the guy that buys this car will lock it away, **** shame.

Cheers,

Paul.
 

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We all know this as per A quote from Anfanuts: 'Also I note at the extreme, both personalized heavily modded cars really take a beating including race prepped cars.'

So for personalized heavily modded cars (which are in the group of hybrid cars) I would be inspecting the whole under frame for cracks. Cracks in the frame around shock towers, engine bay and the steering boxes. Look for strengthening plates around these areas. The under floor /tar was never placed over all the under floor and wheel wells! The under floor tar was always painted for the GT Sprints and GT Veloces 1600 so never black (Unless it was painted black for a black GT Sprint). Look at the type of wheels on the car what events it has been in track, hill climbs, rally. Or if it just comes out once a year for a display as proof the historic log book entries will give some evidence unless it's trailered.

The key thing is for restored cars: private alfisti don't tend to restore and sell, same with personalised hybrid cars. So there will always be a shortage of restored cars for sale (supply) and as the demand shifts upwards, it will drive prices higher. At least until all the low hanging fruit (easy restorations cars like this green GT Sprint) are gone.

Then we will see some of the best hybrid cars being consumed as I mentioned, take two hybrid cars and turn them into to original cars and make a profit at that!
After all this who knows how high the prices of restored factory correct 105's will go when buyers work out there is a limited supply!

At least everyone has the knowledge now of how to restore these cars back to original factory specs, the Italian Certificate of origin and the Italian parts manual.
https://www.okp.de/fileadmin/Download/Ersatzteilkataloge/105_1300-1600_GT_GTV_GTC_GTA.pdf

Comments like 'in period' and 'culturally or heritage' or 'original style' or 'styled to original pattern' or Australian in period all mean a NON original factory interior.
If you are buying a car insist on seeing the original Italian Certificate of origin, that way you will know if the interior and exterior colour is correct to the factory build of the car. If your car does not have a colour for the interior or exterior listed, look up the parts manual and select from there.
If the prior owner/s have changed the original seat colours/carpet to others colours check against the Italian parts manual if it was listed as another of the factory options.
If the car is sporting some extra parts you are not familiar with ask, if they are FIA homologation compliant parts for the model of car you are buying, also helps when you are insuring the car.
Take a 'hint' out of what GTA/GTAj restorers mostly do, they are not painting their cars non standard colours unless it was part of race persona (came in white or red) and are not trimming their seats in non factory colours!

Regards Steve
 

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Restored cars have a bigger market when it comes to sell, so safe bet as you said, but how you get there is the interesting part!
Okay you got me! I've been holding out :)

Here is a hypothetical 'Big picture'
The 66 GT Sprint that sold about 10 months ago for ~$70k that had a complete GT Veloce 1600 make over
Purchased it $70k, then pull the Veloce parts off it
Then purchase your 66 GT Veloce for $160k(that offer more than $150k) then install the correct Veloce parts in it cost of $10k for labour and sell it for $170k also sell the hybrid parts for say $30k

Then install in the 1966 GT Sprint an original interior and running gear cost $30k(do you have some of the parts that suit? as it would cost less), then sell the 66 GT Sprint for $150k
(assumption all cars had the Dunlop braking system)
add it up
Spent $70k+$160+$10+$30
total $270k

got back
$170k+30K+$150k
total $350

Profit ~$80k+

But let's not focus on the $, but the pathway for the best resto/mods hybrid cars will end up back as original cars because 'Restored cars have a bigger market when it comes to sell, so safe bet as you said'
Do your own research before you act on any of this hypothetical information.
Regards Steve
Ciao Steve,

Unfortunately you just don’t get it!
I couldn’t give a sh#t what my cars worth and will keep spending money toward performance improvements and maintenance.
My 105 will be in my ‘Will’ for the following purpose.....
 

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I don't get these 'easy restorations' and 'as it came out of the factory' restorations. On our green example, there are a few things not quite 'as it came out of the factory' albeit of a minor nature.

I see the gear stick looks wrong too (should have the push down for reverse?).

What i am getting at is that the 'Muscle Car' fraternity restore their high end cars down to the last nut & bolt, factory paint markings and all correct factory parts (or repo) to truly
represent the car as manufactured. I have seen a few of the 100k+ cars in Oz that have a number of things plain wrong. For that kind of asking coin the car needs to be 100% not 98 or 97 IMO!

The guy who buys it has no idea what's right and whats wrong as per factory - i mean here we are debating the interior colours! All good banter.

When it comes to 105's i'm a buyer not a seller, hence my line about wishing the cars were more affordable once more. I'd love to expand the collection but who can afford it now.

Like Sketchl, mine will form a guard of honour for me when the day comes, so any thing i do to my cars will be to make them reliable, enjoyable and most importantly nice to drive!

Cheers,

Paul.
 
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