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Discussion Starter #1
My 95 LS brake lights have failed. I have checked the fuse and the pedal switch and both are OK. Thinking it is the control box but I am unsure of the exact location. Under the glove box there is a grey/white control box for the drivers side electric window. To the passenger side of that is a double relay - is this what I am looking for.

Any other suggestions why all of the brake lights would fail?
 

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My 95 LS brake lights have failed. I have checked the fuse and the pedal switch and both are OK. Thinking it is the control box but I am unsure of the exact location. Under the glove box there is a grey/white control box for the drivers side electric window. To the passenger side of that is a double relay - is this what I am looking for.

Any other suggestions why all of the brake lights would fail?
There isn't any brake light control box on the 94-95 models. Are you sure you have 12v coming out of brake light switch white-red wire when pedal pushed? You can test this by hooking meter or test lamp to trailer provision white-red wire in trunk. Wire is located under battery cover.

Usually brake light failure caused by bad potted shunt in brake light switch shunt in wire at switch.

Refer to pages 462-463 in wiring manual.

There are three fuses F11, F15 and F17 in brake light, turn signal and Hazard systems plus N13 Hazard relay in main G1 fuse panel top left corner and two turn signal relays I102A/I102B under dash near radio. All power and ground circuits for brake light system goes through instrument cluster then relays before heading to tail lights except for trailer provison wire.
 

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Discussion Starter #3
I do not have 12 volts on the red/white trunk test lead. when brakes are on or off. All fuses and relay in main box are good, I have tested both switches at the brake pedal and they work according to ohm meter. On normally on and the other normally off, There is some small led or jumper tied into one of the leads near the brake pedal (purple and green wires). Not sure where to look next.

Additionally I have no high beams.

What is the double relay just under the glove box to the right of the drivers side window control box?

Also noticed that the rear most socket mounted to the bracket on the left of the batter does not have a relay plugged into it.

Tom Sahines AROC tech - can we contact direct?
 

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I do not have 12 volts on the red/white trunk test lead. when brakes are on or off. All fuses and relay in main box are good, I have tested both switches at the brake pedal and they work according to ohm meter. On normally on and the other normally off, There is some small led or jumper tied into one of the leads near the brake pedal (purple and green wires). Not sure where to look next.

Additionally I have no high beams.

What is the double relay just under the glove box to the right of the drivers side window control box?

Also noticed that the rear most socket mounted to the bracket on the left of the batter does not have a relay plugged into it.

Tom Sahines AROC tech - can we contact direct?
Tom the two switches H45a and H45b if 5-speed are for cruise control, If A/T one switch H45a is replaced with a jumper. Light green and purple wires. Small green lead jumper goes to G55 ground.

As for a third switch, H3 brake light switch it has 12v power at all times in a white wire from F15 fuse and white red wire coming out of switch goes into a potted shunt (which is your problem I bet) in a white-red wire.

With pedal pushed if you aren't getting 12v out of white-red wire either bypass shunt or cut it out and see if you don't no get brake lights if hazards and turn signals work. see pages 462-463 in wiring diagrams.

If you cut it out just install a crimped splice in place of shunt and enjoy brake lights.

As for high beams swap two left lower relays in fuse box and see if you problem moves to low beams. See page 492-493,

If no difference check for 12v in pin socket 86 of I50 bottom left relay in fuse panel with key on and high beams selected in B68 head light switch.

Does your high beam indicator come on in dash when selected?

Report your findings. I sent you a PM.
 

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tom disconnect the brake switch and jumper the leads on the connector and see if the brake lights turn on

bob
 

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Discussion Starter #6
No power on red/white wire going to the brake pedal switch. Shunt must have been removed by previous owner. Removed connector and jumpered around the brake pedal switch and no brake lights. No warning indicator on dash. For some reason I am not able to see page 462 (cardisk) which must be the wiring diagram. Can someone send me that page. I will try to bring it up on my XP system sometimes widows 7 makes things a *****.
 

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suspect one of 102 a or b relays but don't have my manuals here.
turn signals work y/n?
flashers y/n?

bob
 

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No power on red/white wire going to the brake pedal switch. Shunt must have been removed by previous owner. Removed connector and jumpered around the brake pedal switch and no brake lights. No warning indicator on dash. For some reason I am not able to see page 462 (cardisk) which must be the wiring diagram. Can someone send me that page. I will try to bring it up on my XP system sometimes widows 7 makes things a *****.
So do turn signals and hazard flashers work?

The 12v Power into brake light switch is the white wire from brake light power F15 fuse. It is hot at all times. If you have 12v there jump white to white-red wire at switch like Goats suggest. Fuse F15 is fuse 18 in owner's manual which is right corner fuse in third row from the top. Is that fuse hot and is white wire hot at switch?.

Display on dash I was referring to is for high beams blue indicator your other problem.

You need to get a new cardisc DVD for the 164 as it is very hard to scan out of a 900 page paper manual here is the best I can do today:
 

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Discussion Starter #9
Well the brake lights now are working the issue was actually a failure of the fuse panel G1. I removed the panel and opened it up to see what was going on and found that the flexible circuit board had begun to delaminate. This also now explains why my high beams were not working. The complex multi layer flex circuits are too complex to simply repair with some jumpers so I will be getting another unit to replace it. Dean Russell is looking to see if he can get a new one otherwise I will get one from APE and hope I can get it all back together and working. There are about 14 or so connectors on the back side. The panel was difficult to remove. One screw in the top and then you have to pry it out far enough to lift it up clearing the two long tabs on the bottom that fit in a slot.
 

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not super surprising. Ferrari 355 has similar fusebox issues and I;ve seen 2 other 95 cars with this same fusebox delam issue. One I was able to fix with jumper but the other was a complete nogo. Im going to guess your car is a July or Aug 94 build date?

I had a complete LS fusebox I just sold a couple months ago-- Chase C - ChiapC on this board; look under parts for sale has my old LS with a great fusebox, he is parting it out --
 
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