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newer Alfas in the USA

11K views 68 replies 18 participants last post by  sjmst 
#1 ·
I have a friend that frequents Mexico and he said he sees the new Alfas all the time down in Mexico city. I've really been trying to find an Alfa GT and have seen some for sale down there online at the ferrari dealerships. I would like to buy one and drive it back here to the USA. The only thing that I'm wondering is, how much will it need to be modified to get it street legal? What are the illegalities of it? I currently have a 2001 Jaguar XJR and I'm sure that is more polluting than the Alfa. I know some shops that do conversions to make foreign cars legal, I'm just wondering what would need to be done. Probably just safety standards? I know someone who bought a Renault Spyder and has it here in the states, and he's going to get it made legal pretty soon.
 
#2 · (Edited)
Go to the EPA web site and you can find out. To certify it for U.S. crash worthiness may run upwards of $30,000 or more. It also needs to meet current smog standards for the U.S. and the state you're registering it in. A non conforming vehicle needs to be imported by an ICI, Independant Certified Importer. They handle the importation and conversion and they deal with the EPA.

A number of years ago a friend of mine wanted one of those Mexican Beattles, I think it was an 89 or so and since they were no longer produced for the U.S. she had it registered in Mexico with a friend who lived there. She had Mexican plates and drove it for about five years before she sold it.
 
#4 ·
yeah... I probably should wait then, but has it been set in stone that they are for sure coming? Plus I heard a rumor of them having a northstar... if thats true it will be worth the wait. Plus I have too many projects going on as it is. My 2001 jag, my 1991 cadillac fleetwood lowrider and my 1974 Buick riviera lowrider.
 
#5 ·
At this point they are coming but that could allways change. I have not heard anything about a Northstar engine though. The current V8 for the 8C is from Maserati and I don't see why that will change. The V6 is supposed to be new.
 
#10 ·
Alfa/Fiat and GM



The gas engines in the new models, 159 and Brera, are GM related the 4 cyl. Opel, the V6 Holden. I believe the engines are build by GM to Alfa specs.
The body platform of the 2 models is based on a joint venture with Saab (GM owned) but Saab pulled out. The fairly new Fiat Croma is using the GM gas engines and the 159/Brera body platform, too.
The diesel engines for all Fiat/Lancia/Alfa models are still the Fiat Group's own design and products - a new V6 diesel are in the tube. Fiat sells these engines to GM Europe, Suzuki and others.
The current Alfa model 147 and GT (based on the 147/156 platform) still uses the Fiat Group 4 inline and V6 gas engines and inline 4 and 5 cyl. diesels.
On the matter of making a resent Alfa model legal in the US, the coloring of the lighting and signals shouldn't be too difficult, you can get clear glassed rear lights and put appropriate colored bulbs in them, front side / signal light will need some modifications. However, the pollution and crash worthiness approval might be much more difficult.
Erik
 
#6 ·
WOW. i never even realised that they sell Alfas in Mexico!

Surely there must be ways to get it legalized. I've seen or heard about street legal Nissan Skylines in California, and a few Renault Spyders, and all sorts of other Eurocars that get brought into the US.

A friend of mine said he saw a 'new-ish' TVR floating around San Francisco.
 
#9 · (Edited)
Oh yeah tons of them. I send parts to DF all the time.
I supply shops around here and other states with 156, 166, 2000> Spider parts for Mexican Alfa's
I send tons of these parts to another shop in Dallas all the time for these customers.

Parts take about 7 days or so to get in. But they are willing to wait to get the car fixed.



J
 
#7 ·
I was in Guanajuato, Mex. a couple of years ago and saw a 147 cruising around. I went through the same thought process. I'm pretty sure that most Fiat built cars are DOT compliant as far as safety goes. I met a guy in Nashville who had a Super Brava who got it from Canada. He didn't have many issues registering it here. Who knows?

Paul
 
#8 ·
When GM and Fiat were kissing cousins, there were two Alfa dealerships in Mexico - in Monterrey and Mexico City. Once the two broke their ties, the dealerships were closed. This left many new Alfa's running around Mexico with little support. I have seen a 166 and 156 in Texas with Mexican plates. Because of NAFTA, you can legally cross the border with for several months at a time without problems.

I have received several calls in the last year from late model 156,166, and 147 owners asking if we worked on these models. I told them we would try, but since these models were never brought into the US, technical and parts availability are hard to come by.

We had a customer who wanted a 156GTA. We spoke with a big ICI here in Houston. After much research and many phone calls overseas, a late model Alfa would be every expensive if not impossible to legally convert for acceptance here in the US by the EPA and DOT. The biggest problem was the glass, and lights. Major changes would be required to meet the crash standards. The shop guesstimated a cost of around $50K if possible to get the lights and glass to meet the US standards. The customer balked when you figure the cost of a new 156GTA, shipping costs, and conversion costs.

Hopefully in 2009 the 159 will be available in a Q4 configuration. I will be in line to get one of those.
 
#11 ·
The problem is not the color 0f the lights and glass, the problem is it MUST have on each lamp and glass the DOT number. These cars do not have DOT items. According to the ICI there is no exemption for these items under current regs. The emissions and crash items are usually part of the conversion.

When the Fiat and GM relationship fell apart, the Alfa dealerships were closed. There are now some very expensive late model Alfa's in Mexico needing repairs. It is hit and miss with these models, since most of them are still so new.
 
#12 ·
Well, it seems to me that the unfortunate dealers and owners must contact some Alfa organization in neighboring countries or someone like Altissimo Int. who had an entry on this tread. Int. Auto Parts might be able to help, if they what to. I presume that the dealers still have the special tools, programs and work shop manuals.
Just checked Alfaromeo.com, there is a link to a fully functioning web showing all current Alfa models, are you sure that the Fiat Group just pulls the plug on the market? Just like in the US.
Erik
 
#30 · (Edited)
Int, Auto Parts, no way. They barley understand the 164. They are old 4 cyl parts place and will not be able to order 156> model parts. If they do they will charge more and get it wrong. I Just supplied some glass to a GT owner in Washington DC. Someone smashed his passenger window and could not get a replacement. I got it to him in 6 days.

I do not think IAP has on-line access to alfa for new parts.

So if there is a need for parts for vehicles not brought to the US, I have no issues supplying the parts.

As far as DOT, I agree it is a joke, it is based on old technology from around the 1970's and still used today.
I think all cars should be inspected like in Europe. If it leaks or has a bad shock or tire. Off the road until fixed. Trucks should not be able to be lifted and cars should not be able to be lowered more than 2". headlight, tail light, side markers, side repeaters should all be legal color, not blue, green purple, whatever. Tail lamps should not be able to be replaced with cheap after-market "stylish" tail lamps that are not approved. Only OEM can replace them.
Certain allowable Db for exhaust.
NHTSA is getting better though. headlight technology for example is adopting both Euro and DOT approved headlamps which is good.
But man they have a lot of work ahead of them to even come close to EEC regulations.
We are still in the stone age here in the US. Some of the cars that are driving around should be in the crusher. I see cars spilling smoke out the tail and a cop drive right by and not blink an eye.
Yet, they somehow pass smog and get a valid registration.
The state spends money on Smog test facilities and salaries while charging us $30 for a check every 2 years which as mentioned 98% probably passes.
They spend money on mass transit but nobody rides it because they all drive their heaps of crap. if they had an inspection,took these cars off the road they would add twice as much income to the state since they would then have to use mass transit, environmentally these cars would not contribute to carbon dioxide emissions, pollution, and so forth. Therefor adding to a safer, cleaner less crowded highway/road system. Sure it seems like a dream but a few simple tings in place could have big impacts on this.
One reason I do not think they do it is they may have a huge uproar of anger citizens with confederate flags breaking down the doors of the state capitol demanding back their right to lift their trucks or drive their cars with blown head gaskets etc. I don't know I may be off my rocker..? Maybe they should be charged a hefty carbon tax or safetey tax until fixed? ;)
But I can tell you in the last 10 years driving has not been as enjoyable at all. It is dangerous and drivers these days do not have any manners or any knowledge of driving or the road at all. Since when did flashing a car become the middle finger as opposed to a courtesy to please move to the side as I am going faster than you??
I think is should be mandatory for all drivers to take a driving test and paper test every 2 years.


Just a few ideas off the top of my head at 9:30 at night.
Ciao!
 
#14 · (Edited)
No because the DOT stamp and cert would not be there. And if you said it's DOT spec glass they will ask for test docs for the model you are claiming is DOT approved and you would not have the ICI papers and they will sieze your car or send it back to the import country.

Then they would kick you in the nuts and call you names! :) JK, the above is true however...
 
#16 ·
I have purchased a 1997 Alfa Spider and it is here in the US sadly sitting in my garage. It may never get DOT approved and allowed to be driven. The conversion to federal standards is actually not to expensive, $3500-10,000, but without crash test results the NHTSA will not allow the alfa to be imported.

The Skyline importer in Torrance, CA is a RI (a NHTSA registered importer) actually crash tested the cars to provide safety results. They are now able to import those and resell legally to US. If anyone out there has an extra 1/4 mil, we can partner up and become a RI and crash a few alfa's to start our own import business.
 
#21 ·
Seems to be at least one in the NW.
Yeah, isn't there a yellow one around? Could you register the car under "show and display status"? Or could it be registered as a "kit" car. I'm not too sure what constitutes a kit car but lets assume you "build" the car yourself; could you then register it as such? (I think this is what Autodelta was doing before they were shut down a couple years ago)

This whole DOT and safety thing is an absolute joke. I've been thinking about this the last few weeks every time I see some jacked up truck driving around town after being raised up several inches making the bumpers completely useless. I don't want to see the aftermath of one of these trucks t-boning car at an intersection. I seriously doubt the modern Alfa would inflict half the damage one of these trucks would (or conversely protect you any less than a DOT approved car would when hit).
 
#22 ·
I don't want to see the aftermath of one of these trucks t-boning car at an intersection.
I think about that every time I see one of those idiots. It's the same for big trucks like the cement mixers that have a bumper that lines up with the windshield of any passenger car.
There was a fella I know/knew that was t-boned in an '06 Volvo S 60. The bumper entered the car behind the "a" pillar and pretty much smooshed his head. Not a pretty way to go. I think that we should not be so worried about tail pipe emmissions as safety. Here in Louisville we used to have safety inspections. They got rid of these and changed to a tail pipe test. They have since gotten rid of the tail pipe thing because most of the cars tested passed on the first test. Only a few didn't.
If cars had good tires, suspensions, and brakes there would (IMHO) be fewer accidents. I see way too many cars every day that have bad ball joints or bald tires and all they want to do is fix the air conditioner:eek:.

It really pisses me off some times that there is a good chance that the idiot behind me most likely has bad/cheap brakes and bald tires and will slam into one of my cars if I stop too fast:mad:

Sorry...a rant..

Paul
 
#23 ·
Don't be sorry for your rant. It is a very valid subject. The vehicle smog checks in most States are just a scam run by the private companies which do the testing. Almost all cars pass the tests on the first check. The percentage of those which don't is sooo small, it is meaningless in the scheme of things. Just another sanctioned tax on the vehicle owner. Much better to have a reasonable safety inspection program to ensure a more meaningful safe driving environment.

Same with the cameras for catching red light running. While there are those OUTLAWS who do deliberately run red lights (and may they suffer debilitating plague and pestilence for the rest of their lives), the cameras and the remotely issued tickets are nothing but a big money boon for the companies and just another sanctioned tax piled onto the car owner. If I were to run a red light, I insist on a real person to chastise and ticket me, not some remote camera, not big brother. We have the right to face our accusers.

Not exactly on the subject, though.
 
#29 ·
Del I couldnt agree with you more bro check this out back in 2005 I failed emissions in the carbon% by one point!! I thought that was BS!!! then second time around The CO% limit is "63%" SO they state:rolleyes: My car got exactly that!!:rolleyes: then this year last thursday I passed first shot My CO% was 53% and you know what the limit was.....you guessed it 53%:eek::rolleyes: When I saw that I just thought this is nothing but a big scam to rip people into fixing or looking into their cars to fix nothing that is wrong.:mad: You really wont know whats the TRUE emission limits are because its all a big scam. And I have my tests scores to proove it man.:mad:
 
#24 ·
As far as a kit car goes that would never fly since the local DMV would take one look at it and know that it's not one. Any imported kit still must go through customs and have proper documentation. The EPA or DOT website is pretty clear I'd have to check but maybe the yellow GTV Spider in the NW is a newer model that came through Canada. There are vehicles that are OK from up north after certain years.
 
#25 ·
Without the crash test data and meeting the safety requirements, no alfa built after 1994 is legal on US highways. Only cars similiar in previous years would be allowed. Lets say a 1995 spider had same chasis, body etc as the 1994, you can have an RI petition that based on it is similiar to the 1994 which met the US safety. I wish someone would post how they did it because right now my only option is to drive in 15 more years. (safety and emmissions dont matter if your car is over 25 yo., for anyone who does not believe the federal law is in place to protect the US auto industry)
 
#34 ·
This will never work. The issue is not with the title but with the DOT and EPA. The car was never certified for U.S. importation.
 
#35 ·
The biggest and most complicated issue is to get the car into the U.S. That's already done.

So, what will never work??

Maybe selling the car in the U.S. will not work, but driving it with a legally issued registration in a U.S. state for your own pleasure once in a while??? Yes, it will work.:D:D

Best regards


Hans
 
#36 ·
This website is for lost titles, this car has never had a U.S. title and unless it goes through the DOT certification it never will.
 
#37 ·
If you say so, so be it.;);):D:D:confused:

If this beautiful Alfa Spider was mine, I would be on the road right now
with the top down and enjoying it................. with a plate and a registration on it.:D:D


Regards

Hans

P.S. People who don't try will never find out.........
 
#38 ·
Yeah right, you're in California and I'll bet you $1000 you cannot obtain a valid registration! :) :) ;) This is a 97 GTV Spider not an old Sud.
 
#39 ·
hmmm....that get new car titles website is pretty interesting.

are there people who've tried it with newer European cars? does anybody know of anyone who HAS succeeded?

Just last week, i saw a guy on VW Vortex who has a 2001 Audi S3 in Colorado. A car which was NEVER sold in the USA. He has registered its insurance as an S4.

ANYTHING is possible...it just takes alot of dedication to get it going...
 
#42 ·
hmmm....that get new car titles website is pretty interesting.

are there people who've tried it with newer European cars? does anybody know of anyone who HAS succeeded?

Just last week, i saw a guy on VW Vortex who has a 2001 Audi S3 in Colorado. A car which was NEVER sold in the USA. He has registered its insurance as an S4.

ANYTHING is possible...it just takes alot of dedication to get it going...

Precisely my point. You could have not said it any better:D:D

P.S. to the guy from "Alfaville", I have some other vehicles besides Alfas
and a residence further up north of the state of CA....
 
#40 ·
There are certain cars that have had crash tests done in their home country but have not imported to the U.S. The 1997 GTV Spider was not one of those. Think about this, Bill Gates, you know the MicroSoft guy had a Porsche 959 sitting in customs, then his warehouse for a dozen years because of no crash test documentation. Don't you think Bill Gates and his small stash of change could have found a way to drive his car on U.S. roads. I'm sure ole Bill just was not dedicated enough to find a way and he got lazy :)
 
#41 ·
actually that's not true. Bill Gates drives his Porsche 959 to work...actually he had his 959 reposessed by the government a few years ago, because he was driving it MORE than the government said he could. They'd given him a certain mileage he could drive it, and he exceeded it! I guess that's what money got him, a limited ability to drive it. I have a cousin who lives near him, and has seen him driving it around many times.

BTW, 2 weeks ago, i saw a Porsche 959 sitting in the Porsche dealership here in NY. Turns out the owner has 2 of them!
 
#43 ·
If you go to the DOT website you will see that a car can be imported as a show or display car and that would be how Gates did it. Car must have historical significance and or rarity. A 959 has that, a newer Alfa Spider would have a hard time qualifying. The Dot website also shows all the cars that are eligible and there are many that we never got over here, the newest Alfa's on the list are 1995.
 
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