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Hi,

I have been lurking on here for a while, so I thought it about time I should say hi and (try to) post up some pictures of "my" Giulietta. The car has been in the family since 2003, and since my Dad recently had to give up driving, it has become "mine".

We imported the car from France from a family friend, the car came with a good wedge of history (in French!) going back to 1987, and some photos of the partial restoration its had done. The car was registered in the UK as a 1963, but according to Marco from Alfa it's turns out to be manufactured in 1960, and sold in France. The previous owner thought it was originally German - as it has sun visors fitted? It was also originally medium blue.

Mechanically the car has been fairly well overhauled at some point, with a different head being fitted - apparently to allow the use of unleaded, but I've since been told this is irrelevant? I have some photos (I'll try and scan) of the head, and it looks like it may have some porting done to it but I'm not sure. It also runs a different Solex carb, but again I'm not too sure on the details. Either way a little more power would still be appreciated!!

Overall the car is a really good solid driver, although it has just failed it's MOT, but that's for another thread! The car needs some general tidying, and I would like to work my way through the car bringing things little more up to spec, the suspension could do with a refresh, and I really must get rid of that awful radio, but as always the to-do list is long!

In the meantime, and once the weather warms up - it was 3 degrees when I had to drive to the MOT test centre last week (roof down of course!) I will keep on driving it, with enthusiasm, and hopefully enjoying it for years to come!!! And no doubt posting lots of questions on here along the way!!

Sorry the pics are great, but any comments welcomed.

Cheers

Will





 

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This is nice. Interesting in that some features have been added without altering the look of the car. The side marker lights on the back rather than front of the fenders is unusual, as well as the later version windshield washers mounted on the hood rather than the cowl. Most will like the fitted sun visors. The Giulia parts book shows a different upper windshield header, fitted with sun visors for the German market. I have never seen this option on a Giulia. Here is a similar idea on a Giulietta. Very neat. Thanks for the great pictures and welcome to the BB!
 

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Hi Will

Welcome to the BB--V. Nice Spider--especially liked the sun visors.:cool:

The complete tonneau cover would help with the warmth when done up on tha passenger side.:)
 

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Get a load of the cylinder head on the car. It has the cam cover bolt holes on the fron for a 1750 or 2L engine. I can't imagine that a 1300 block is below it, yet the owner is looking for more power. What gives?
JB
 

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That is a wonderful Giulietta !!
I'm sure that the head was changed to a late 1300 with the tabs.
Just get the MOT and enjoy !!
 

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We must be very near neighbours! I'm in St Albans. Lovely car, sorry to hear about the MOT, the inspector must have been a stickler!
 

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Ah, the mythical German sun visors - is the first sighting?
Is there a bolt on hood hiding under the tonneau?
The front side markers and washer jets (did '60 spiders ever come with washers originally?) are in the wrong place and the air cleaner is not quite kosher but don't let that bother you, enjoy!

What did it fail on? Not the wrong light pattern? If it is, Wipac do some reasonably priced halogen units that will fit while you search for original Carello or Lucas units.

Simon
 

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The bolt holes on the front af the head also existed on post 1968 1300 and 1600 heads. By then only the 1750 and eventually the 2000 were sold in the US, so these later 1300 heads are uncommon on this side of the ocean.
 

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Hi Will

Lovely car, nice to see another '60 on the BB

The indicator lights up near the windscreen are very interesting, our one '60 1495*08930 has them in exactly the same place, but the other '60 1495*10990 has them just behind the headlights and a friends '60 doesn't have them at all.

I see your car has the fixed-hood, another '60 characteristic, I see yours at least has the cover for the hood. The heater tap is rather novel, the glass brake fluid reservoir may just be original if the car was delivered in France as there were a few changes dictated by local regulations for cars delivered in France. I can't quite make out all the details of the reservoir in the pictures

The wiper washers & motor are later additions by a PO, as is the head & the Giulia air filter top, ditto the voltage regulator. I see an air compressor for air horns- for blasting the continental sheep out of the road..........audible warning of approach. A 1400cc piston kit gives a little extra oompf - something to consider if an engine rebuild looms.

Looks like a great car, well done !! if you are not a member of the Giulietta Register, I'd advise you to join up with a bunch of really great like-minded enthusiasts.

Ciao
Greig
 

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What is really interesting is that this lovely car has maintained it's true character for 50+ years! The alterations that have been done over time were all to maintain function, (even the water tap!) not to alter the Alfa's basic nature as a drivers car. Someone, at sometime, must have seen the picture of the phantom sun visors, and spent some effort at a functional version. The same is true with all the other deviations from "as delivered" we have mentioned. NONE detract from this Alfa's character.
I have a soft spot for 1960 101 spiders as one was my first real race-car.
 

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Nice car! I like the light interior. I bet it looked great with the blue exterior and light interior. I'm always amazed at how many of these cars end up red! Does anyone know what percentage were red from the factory? Just wondering....

Scott
 

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Hi Will
I completely agree with Gordon, it's a lovely car and none of the mods detract from the character, much the same as both our '60 Spiders where little mods were made along the way to keep them running, ditto our '57 Spider. In any case, all the mods bar the washer nozzles are easily reversed & even these are not too difficult sort out, but we are being presumptuous as you have indicated that you intend making minor changes to bring the car closer to original spec

The majority of Giulietta's seem to have been white; at least those that came to South Africa were mostly white, obviously Red is the Italian racing colour and this tends to lend "rose-tinted" spectacles to all prospective owners contemplating a colour change, with Rich Racing Rosso getting the majority vote………..it’s not called Resale Red for nothing !!

All three of our Spiders have had colour changes, the '60 Twins from Celeste Blue to Resale Red & one again to white, the '57 from white to Red.......both '57 Sprints to Red, the Sprint Veloce was always Rosso & in the case of the 101 Sprint twins, the Biancospino car stayed Biancospino, while the Rosso car went Giallo.

Ciao
Greig
 

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Discussion Starter #13
Guys,

Thanks so much for the positive comments, and all the fantastic info about the car!

The car definitely has some character, and it's interesting to know what's been altered along the way. The previous owner had an amazing collection of cars including a Delahaye 135 Le Mans, a similarly aged Bugatti, a Hispano-Suiza, an AC Ace, Abarth 500, plus a few others yet would still use the Alfa regularly, take in on tours all over the place in the 10 years he had it. You could tell he was a proper petrol head, and sad to see it go.

I'm interested to try and know more about what might have been done to the engine, I've attached a couple of pics I found of the head, don't know if this helps identify it. If it is a later 1300 head, what's the difference? It's fairly nippy, and the previous owner reckoned it was quicker than his Bristol engined Ace, and it seems quite torquey too. Whilst on the subject, what's a sensible rev limit for these engines?

Are the sun visors really that special?!? In the paperwork there's a photocopy of an English book, with a section highlighted about how the German "Spyders" had the visors. To be fair, being 6ft+ they work better as wind-over-your-head-deflectors, rather actual sun visors! There's also a highlighted book section of "New roof installation from 1963", and I wonder if this is where the guestimate came from it may be a '63? It does have a bolt on hood, which am not really a fan of, since the roof is never up, I'd rather have it out of sight.

For the record the vin is 1495*08742.
I assume the glass reservoir to be original, I cannot remember what it says on, I'll check it out.

The Giulietta Register is definitely on my to join list!

Alex - My parents (and the Alfa!) lived in St. Albans, until last year when they moved to Hatfield, I live just up the road in Stevenage. Small world!
The garaged that failed the MOT was Dave Thomas the Alfa specialists in Codicote, taken there for convenience, but more recently has been looked after by Jamie Porter at the Alfa workshop in Royston. Top bloke.

It failed it's MOT on excessive play in the steering idler. Had a call from the garage today to say they need it for a couple of days to fit new bushes and ream them to size? Otherwise a clean bill of health.

I do like the fact the car is quite unique in it's own little ways. To be honest, I'm not going to attempt to make it into a concours car, just sort out a few bits like the radio, and that wiper jet motor, and free of the heater tap, and repaint the wheels, re-chrome the bumpers, etc..... and just make it into a really tidy driver. To be honest we've covered too many miles in it, and I love driving it too much just to tuck it up in a garage!!:)

Cheers

Will


 

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Will
Before you get roasted on a spit for having the incorrect license plate lights and rear reflectors along with a list of other items that some members may fuss about ... Welcome to the AlfaBB!
Your glass brake fluid reservoir is a Francais-market item ... handy for checking fluid level and condition. You may eventually want to replace it with a metal reservoir ... not for functional reasons but due to its market value. It would likely sell for three times the cost of a new metal reservoir.

Enjoy your ride every chance you get.
 

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I believe the later 1300 and 1600 heads (starting with the 1600 GTV) had revised porting which combined with different cams gave a more flexible power curve. A 1300 GT Junior was given for 103 hp @ 6000 rpm while an SZ was given for 100 hp @ 6500 rpm with much wilder cams and higher compression.

Regarding lead free operation, this is an issue of valve seat hardness. All aluminum heads have hardened steel inserts and should be able to survive lead free operation to a degree. However some pre-1972 non-Alfa aluminum heads have been known to eventually suffer from lead free petrol, as their inserts were not quite hard enough. I've never heard in 34 years (in a lead free territory) of an Alfa head suffering of lead free operation. Maybe somebody will have evidence to the contrary...

I think 6500 rpm would be a safe rev limit for a sound 1300. Some like to wind them up higher. Make sure the tach is calibrated.
 

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Without noting the engine number, lets suppose it is a 101 1300, the 105 1300 head is a better designed casting. None of usual 1300 heads had large valves, or special ports, but the early 101 1600 head had large ports, and was soon replaces with a smaller port version for better low speed operation. The early 101 1600 heads also sometimes developed nasty cracks between the plug hole and exhaust seat, while the 101 1300's burned valves and the heads warped. This was addressed by the sodium filled exhaust valves on the Italian 1300 TI Police cars, with some trickle down to street vehicles. The big improvement was the 105 1600 & 1300 head that was, internally in the water jacket, a superior casting. The need for the sodium valves was moot, and stainless valves replaced the sodium. Cracking and warping issues were reduced, if not eliminated, with correct valve adjustment intervals and normal engine checks with the later head.
 

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Regarding lead free operation, this is an issue of valve seat hardness. All aluminum heads have hardened steel inserts and should be able to survive lead free operation to a degree. However some pre-1972 non-Alfa aluminum heads have been known to eventually suffer from lead free petrol, as their inserts were not quite hard enough. I've never heard in 34 years (in a lead free territory) of an Alfa head suffering of lead free operation. Maybe somebody will have evidence to the contrary...

Yves,

I always thought the issue of lead free operation and old Alfas rather concerned valve guides than valve seats, as the valve guides were made out of too soft material, so in case of disturbance in idling, worned out guides are most likely the culprit.

Dennis
 

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Returning to the question ...

While all this head and valve discussion is ... entertaining - it does little to accurately answer Will's statement: "I'm interested to try and know more about what might have been done to the engine..."
Just guessing at this point but I'd answer: It's been replaced. ;)

Will
Using the attached pic as a guide, would you please supply us with the engine serial numbers or detailed pics of the right and left sides of the powerplant?
The numbers are normally found on a boss at the right side of the block, behind the distributor and just aft of the mechanical fuel pump (solid turquoise line) ... or on a newer Alfa block- on the left side of the engine, stamped into the flange which mates to the transmission (dotted turquoise line).

I suspect your Giulietta has a 5 speed gearbox fitted ?

The yellow outlined Pinifarina number is for your amusement - that tag matched a similar one found on the right edge of the boot/trunk lid on a chassis as originally assembled by Pininfarina. These three digits corresponded to the last three of the Pininfarina assembly number which was stamped into the boot/trunk floor, just to the left of center - at the rearmost edge. :)
 

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Discussion Starter #19
The engine number is 1315.012723. My understanding is that this is the original engine?
I'll have a look at the Pininfarina no next time I'm with the car.
The 'box is a 4 speed.

Cheers

Will
 

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From the tables in Fusi, your car was built early 1960. Your engine number does not exist in the tables, but is a continuation of the late 1959 numbers - Alfa replaced the 1315 engine prefix with 00102 around that period (no physical difference). Missing entries for either engine or chassis are not uncommon in the book.

IMO it could very well be the original engine. Greig, what is the engine number in your 08930: something like 1315.013XXX?

You could contact Marco Fazio at Alfa Centro Storico (instructions in the Spider register thread) for the exact build date, original destination and color, but I think by then engine numbers were not recorded. If you have the serial number plate, the engine number stamped on the plate is likely to be "1315".
 
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