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Discussion Starter #1
Hello all. I'm a complete newbie to this site - and to Alfa Romeos. (I used to have Datsun 240Zs [:eek:] in the UK, but they are unavailable in South Africa - to where I have moved.

So... I have been looking for a fast road/track day/occasional hill-climb car and have seen an advert for a Junior stepnose with 2ltr engine, twin-choke Webers, LSD, 2 spare engines, windshields and other spares for about ZAR 25,000 (£1800/$3600). The owner has sent me photos of the areas I am concerned about (bodywork being my primary concern) and it looks very good indeed - fairly original and with very minor surface rust.

My apologies if the following questions have been asked before, but can anyone give me their opinion on the following:

1. Is a Junior stepnose a good investment if I keep it outwardly original, or is a GTA lookalike more desirable?

2. Having only owned IRS trackday cars, how much difference will be noticable with a live axle (assuming I get a good aftermarket suspension setup? Should I choose an IRS Alfa instead?

3. How do I get the vehicle and spares 1600kms across South Africa and pay for it without the wife knowing?

Many thanks in anticipation. And many thanks for the informative and inspirational threads.

C
 

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3. How do I get the vehicle and spares 1600kms across South Africa and pay for it without the wife knowing?
When you figure out the answer to this question - Please POST. Been trying to do this but only five miles accross town in the USA. Been married 41 years and still can't figure her out!!!!!!:D
 

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Discussion Starter #3
When you figure out the answer to this question - Please POST. Been trying to do this but only five miles accross town in the USA. Been married 41 years and still can't figure her out!!!!!!:D
****, and that was the question I really needed answering! I'm going for the "would you like a holiday next month?" ploy. I guess that won't work for a car five miles away :(
 

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1. Is a Junior stepnose a good investment if I keep it outwardly original, or is a GTA lookalike more desirable?
IMO it is better investment value if you keep your car outwardly original. If you ever sell the car, a real Alfisti will forgive you (and most likely even thank you) for "invisible" performance mods i.e. Engine, suspension, drivetrain etc;
But if you start removing parts, then the value of re-sourcing and refitting those parts is naturally going to be deducted from your asking price.
In the end a GTA lookalike will only ever be a lookalike. The original GTA's are worth real dollars. A lookalike is just an incomplete car.

2. Having only owned IRS trackday cars, how much difference will be noticable with a live axle (assuming I get a good aftermarket suspension setup? Should I choose an IRS Alfa instead?
Personally I don't do track, so this is probably best answered by someone who does.
But I would expect that you will notice the difference.
Having said that, if you add a purpose built modern suspension setup such as those sold by Alfaholics, Classic Alfa and Centerline, you will also be pleasantly surprised by how well these old cars actually perform on a live rear axle. I am told the addition of a LSD makes a huge difference. A local guy with a car identical to mine has transplanted the LSD from a Berlina into his '67 GTV and swears by the result.

I am of course biased :D

I have a copy of an old car magazine here somewhere with a road test where the reviewer asked "How do they do that with a live axle?!"
If I find it, I will scan and upload it.

Cheers,
-Col-
 

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Discussion Starter #5
Many thanks Col.

I'll take your advice on keeping the car outwardly original - makes sense to me and has been the case with other classic marques I have had.
 

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Hi Oyibo
I bought a really nice 73 GTV in Pretoria last year and I am in the proccess of building it into a fast road/trackday car.I was lucky to find a very clean original car and having spent its life on the reef it was relatively rust free.
I joined the Alfa club a few months ago and they are a hive of information They mail out for sale cars all the time and the prices are often very reasonable.Also you may like to contact Dawie de Villiers at Glenwood Motors in Pretoria,he is well hooked in to the scene and could point you in the right direction.
A cousin of mine in Jhb has just bought a 69 stepnose and is building a GTA replica.He bought the car on auction and it is really a nice clean driver.So they are out there and changing hands.
As for transporting cars if its a driver I have found the best way of transport is to put the car on the train.(not sure were you are) but if you are between CT and Jhb the train is very efficient.
As for the problem with your wife I suggest you inform her that men have needs............;)
I'm in the UK until early Oct but if you want to hook up or check out my car you can PM me and we can make an arrangement

Steven
 

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Discussion Starter #8
$3,600 (USD ?) sounds like a darned reasonable investment for what you described.
That's what I though :) - hence the reason I'm prepared to move it quite a distance.


Hi Oyibo

...I joined the Alfa club a few months ago and they are a hive of information They mail out for sale cars all the time and the prices are often very reasonable.Also you may like to contact Dawie de Villiers at Glenwood Motors in Pretoria,he is well hooked in to the scene and could point you in the right direction....
Hi there Steve,

Good to hear from another person in SA - I certainly will be joining the Alfa club - they seems pretty well subscribed in Cape Town. Thanks for pointing me in the way of Dawie. I'm sure I saw his name in another thread in which he was quoted as being a bit of a Fundi, but I couldn't find out how to get in touch - I'll go via Glenwood Motors.

...As for transporting cars if its a driver I have found the best way of transport is to put the car on the train.(not sure were you are) but if you are between CT and Jhb the train is very efficient...
I'll have to look into the train option - the car's in Durban and I'm in Cape Town. I have found a guy who is willing to drive it on a trailer (along with the spare engines etc - but he's a bit pricey (ZAR 8000). Should I go direct to Transnet or through a third party?

As for the problem with your wife I suggest you inform her that men have needs............
LOL. To be fair to her she puts up with a lot from me - as she says, I am the "ultimate bachelor." Or words to that effect.

The promise of a holiday in Durban seemed to help :eek:

I'll send a PM, and thanks for all the advice - much appreciated.

Charlie
 

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3. How do I get the vehicle and spares 1600kms across South Africa and pay for it without the wife knowing?
C
I would suggest to follow the slogan launched by the trademark Nike for people like us having this same problem:

JUST DO IT :cool:
She'll get used to it one day ;)
 

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3. How do I get the vehicle and spares 1600kms across South Africa and pay for it without the wife knowing?
or better yet, tell her you bought it for her, because you love her so much...surprise, surprise!

Try it, it works.

Anyway, it did for me, twice, I now own two magnificent AR's.:D
 

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Discussion Starter #12
Originally Posted by Joseph M. View Post
I would suggest to follow the slogan launched by the trademark Nike for people like us having this same problem:

JUST DO IT
She'll get used to it one day
Well Joseph, I just did it!! It cost me three nights in a 5 star hotel for the wife, and she loves my boy-racer (read 'mid-life crisis) driving style, but I love the car. Here it is:

Front-Small.jpg

Front-L-Small.jpg

Loads of spares as well, but two spare engines seemed like a good deal.

engines.jpg

BTW, the documentation says GTV - can anyone help me identify the correct model? The Chassis number is AR298696.
 

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The car looks very nice Charlie.
Seems like you got a good deal, especially with the spares and engines.

I think I can help with model identification.

The 3 bar Grille on your car is that of a Giulia Sprint GT Veloce (GTV), so unless this has been swapped at some stage your documentation is correct.
All of these early model GTV's were the very pretty step-fronts, so it looks to me that this is what you have.

The original engine on this car would have been a 1600cc, and they were made only from 1966 to 1968. (see attached model ID chart)
Although, the perfectionist in me has to point out that those are the wrong side indicators for a GTV. They look like the indicators from a later model 1750 or 2000.

I own two of these - one '66 GTV and one '67 GTV. Proud father of twins that were born in different years ;)

If it is a GTV then it's time you stopped referring to it as a Junior, as that is a different model. The term Junior was adopted later on (1969 I think) to differentiate the smaller engined variants from the larger engined 1750's and 2000's.
The 1600 GTV was as senior a model as you could get at the time it was made :)

What model did the previous owner identify it as? And what year was it made?

-Col-
 

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Discussion Starter #14 (Edited)
Colin,

WOW - that's what makes the internet great: the access to instant expert info. Thanks very much.

I had a look at a chassis/VIN number chart on this website and it confirms your opinion: Giulia Sprint GT Veloce (RHD/CKD).

The South African documentation in somewhat confusing - It appears to have been re-registered in 1986 having been rebuilt. Unfortunately the date of manufacture (or assembly in SA) is not given. The PO said it was 1968.

The PO advertised it as a GTV Junior - the Certificate of Registration lists it as a GTV.

Unfortunately, the interior is far from original and - of course - the bodywork is going to take some work (anyone have a Giulia Sprint GT Veloce RHD dashboard for sale?).

BTW, what indicaters should I be looking for (I'm new at this Alfa thing)?

Many thanks,

Charlie
 

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Charlie,

See attached pics for the correct indicators for your car. They're about 8cm long, and 1cm wide with a chrome surround.
They're listed for sale on Classicalfa.co.uk as "INDICATOR REPEATERS - EARLY LONG". But if you're going to buy them, you should probably check if this is just the lens or the entire assembly, as I suspect it doesn't include chrome assembly.

The small pic on the left is from the Classic Alfa catalogue, the second is a compilation of pics of my car taken from another thread on the BB. You can see the indicator in the bottom right pic. I included this pic not only for the indicator, but also so you can see what a mostly original car looks like. Mostly original, but not entirely :D

Seeing as I pointed out that you have the wrong indicators, I have to say that unless you're going to restore the entire car back to factory original I wouldn't bother replacing them. The indicators you have work fine I'm sure, so don't fix what's not broken. I'm not a stickler for originality, I just noticed it.

You can get the manufacture details of your car by emailing the Alfa Romeo archives BTW.
If you send in your Chassis number with a request for information they will respond with manufacture and delivery dates, model details and original colour.
The archive historians name is Elvira. Her email address is [email protected]

The reply will be short and to the point, but it is very useful.

Have fun.

-Col-
 

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correct email

Elvira has retired - this is now the correct email, I copied it off a reply they sent me this month. Great service, and you can ask in English.

[email protected]

Other anorak info - there was a 1300 GT Junior available from 1967 to 1971 (stepnose), so your GT Veloce is 'senior'

Nice car you found - and v cheap by european standards ... Good Luck
 

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Discussion Starter #17 (Edited)
Many thanks PPTH99 - I have emailed the address you sent.

I think I got a good deal, but the photos don't show the bad areas of the car :eek: But as a British man living in South Africa I can confirm it is much cheaper than Europe. :)

Just got this back:

Dear Mister ,



with reference to your request we are informing you as follows.



According to our documentation files, the chassis number AR 298696 originally corresponds to an Alfa Romeo Giulia Sprint GT Veloce RHD (105.37), manufactured on the 24th November 1966 and sent to South Africa.

No further information available about this car.



Yours, Sincerely,



Marco Fazio







Automobilismo Storico Alfa Romeo

Viale Alfa Romeo – I 20020 Arese (Mi)

Tel. +39 02 444 29 115

Fax +39 02 444 28 152

Mob. +39 334 629 53 81
Fantastic - thanks for the help you have all given.
 

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that was quick !

fast reply ! They normally give the exterior and interior colour as well, maybe they dont have it for those export CKD cars.

your car was built on a Thursday - its a fun thing to check, if you remember all those british leyland stories about cr*p cars built on monday or friday (or anything in between in their case ...) wednesdays were supposed to be best. My cars are all fridays , but not as bad as one I know built on christmas eve
 

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Well Joseph, I just did it!! It cost me three nights in a 5 star hotel for the wife, and she loves my boy-racer (read 'mid-life crisis) driving style, but I love the car. Here it is:

Hi, Congrats, I hope you've also enjoyed the stay in the hotel::.

Nice car by the way.:cool:

Joseph
 

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Dunno if this will come in usefull, but as a fellow Cape Town alfa owner, I got a good reception at a workshop called CarSport Holland, out in brakenfell. There's also ItalSud in boo-kaap, but I haven't tried them out just yet.
 
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