Alfa Romeo Forums banner

21 - 40 of 53 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
224 Posts
Check grounds. Roughness may be due to dirty injectors, a bad fuel pressure regulator, vacuum leaks. Easy to figure out but hard to do long distance.
Cruzin performance has cleaned injectors for me on 2 cars that sat up like yours. About $100 to do a set of 4.
Is the clutch stuck on the flywheel or is the slave cylinder frozen? I have seen both.
If it is indeed stuck on the flywheel, pressing the clutch pedal and starting the car should release it. Also, driving it and accelerating and decelerating will do it with the clutch pressed pedal in.
More often, I have seen a frozen slave cylinder. Have someone depress the clutch pedal while you are under the car and watch for slave movement. If the slave is stuck, you can actually bend the clutch pedal and ave to rebend it back.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
47 Posts
Discussion Starter #22
I think a smoother idle is bit of a ham sandwich - vacuum hoses, plugs, clean injectors, etc. No real mystery meat yet.

The voltage thing has been vexing. I cleaned all the grounds and the junction box, but it still only fires under CSI. Then I setup the dual battery thing just to verify the voltage issue. I removed the starter wire from the junction box and taped it off. So the trunk battery only powered the starter. I added a second battery, common grounding at the cam cover, and +12V to the junction box, hence the fuse 1-5 rail, ignition switch, etc. During cranking, the voltage at the ECU was a steady 12.5V as one may expect. However, no start - ******

I returned everything to standard configuration and jumped the battery from my Toyota like yesterday. But, unlike yesterday, no start!! Then, for grins, I pulled out and cleaned the in-line fuse near the ECU, and wouldn't you know, the car fired up. It's been starting fine all afternoon under its own battery. Let's see what tomorrow brings. (As an aside, if that does amount to the root cause, I may consider replacing it with a blade fuse. I'm slightly allergic to bullet fuses.)

The slave cylinder is fine. I tried starting in gear with the clutch pedal in, but the clutch didn't release. I'll rock it back and forth when my son gets home.

Thanks everyone.

P.S. The fuel pump moans and groans - I'll post a video that may be informative to y'all. It just sounds a little too squealy to my ear. Let me know it's in the zone of "normal".
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
488 Posts
I think a smoother idle is bit of a ham sandwich - vacuum hoses, plugs, clean injectors, etc. No real mystery meat yet.

The voltage thing has been vexing. I cleaned all the grounds and the junction box, but it still only fires under CSI. Then I setup the dual battery thing just to verify the voltage issue. I removed the starter wire from the junction box and taped it off. So the trunk battery only powered the starter. I added a second battery, common grounding at the cam cover, and +12V to the junction box, hence the fuse 1-5 rail, ignition switch, etc. During cranking, the voltage at the ECU was a steady 12.5V as one may expect. However, no start - ******

I returned everything to standard configuration and jumped the battery from my Toyota like yesterday. But, unlike yesterday, no start!! Then, for grins, I pulled out and cleaned the in-line fuse near the ECU, and wouldn't you know, the car fired up. It's been starting fine all afternoon under its own battery. Let's see what tomorrow brings. (As an aside, if that does amount to the root cause, I may consider replacing it with a blade fuse. I'm slightly allergic to bullet fuses.)

The slave cylinder is fine. I tried starting in gear with the clutch pedal in, but the clutch didn't release. I'll rock it back and forth when my son gets home.

Thanks everyone.

P.S. The fuel pump moans and groans - I'll post a video that may be informative to y'all. It just sounds a little too squealy to my ear. Let me know it's in the zone of "normal".
In tank pump is probably shot or clogged with old fuel and crud.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
47 Posts
Discussion Starter #24
Interesting point about in-tank pump. I can check that.
Not sure if this video is all helpful, but it captures the pump moaning I mentioned.

 

·
Registered
Joined
·
47 Posts
Discussion Starter #25
I've been noodling through my earlier experiment with the dual batteries and the in-line fuse. I was incorrect to assume the trunk battery only ran the starter. It also powered the main relay (injectors) and the fuel pumps via the drive relay. This doesn't totally explain the it-worked-yesterday-but-not-today phenomenon, however. It does seem that cleaning the in line fuse did something.

Incidentally, my in-line fuse enters the ECU harness/connector and then there's a red wire from the ECU harness to the drive relay (pin 30). This is a little different than Papajam's schematic for a 1984 Spider that shows the in-line fuse directly to the drive relay. I'd like to know what that is about.
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
1,692 Posts
Incidentally, my in-line fuse enters the ECU harness/connector and then there's a red wire from the ECU harness to the drive relay (pin 30). This is a little different than Papajam's schematic for a 1984 Spider that shows the in-line fuse directly to the drive relay. I'd like to know what that is about.
There should be a pink & white wire from pin 87 of the drive relay that goes into a harness and eventually to the inertia switch by the windshield-washer bottle. That switch is designed to turn off the fuel pumps in case of a rollover. Perhaps someone rerouted that wire.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
47 Posts
Discussion Starter #27
There should be a pink & white wire from pin 87 of the drive relay that goes into a harness and eventually to the inertia switch by the windshield-washer bottle. That switch is designed to turn off the fuel pumps in case of a rollover. Perhaps someone rerouted that wire.
That pink and white wire is present, and the inertia switch is good.
It's as though the in-line fuel pump fuse wire disappears into the ECU connector, and re-emerges to be connected to pin 30 of the drive relay. The ECU boot is clean - I don't see evidence of any hacking.

BTW, I freed the clutch and drove the car back and forth in the driveway - a whole 20 feet. I put the car on blocks, started in 4th, then applied the brakes. Freed up first time without beating it to death. Easy-peasy.

Fun.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
52 Posts
You've got 2 fuel pumps on this model: main pump under the luggage tray near ECU (accessed from under the car) and low pressure in-tank pump. On my car the pumps are noisy only during start up, until they reach working pressure.
Mine 84 has been sitting idle for about 15 years in dry climate (AZ), so I had to replace half of the rubber tubing - fuel lines, brake lines, clutch line. You'll need new brake pads front and rear (don't bother with parking brake shoes). I didn't replace the brake discs but rather gave them a clean with medium grit sandpaper.
I would also remove the oil pan and clean it. Chances are that sludge has separated from oil and your oil pump is sitting in a bath of sludge. Gearbox and rear axle - I would change that oil as well.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2 Posts
I used tyre sheen on my crazed Perspex on a race car and on the hood of my Elan - both came up looking like new ! A mate in cleaning products put me onto it - try a small section and see the results .. Ed
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
540 Posts
Hi folks. I just got my new old alfa running (sort of). My in-laws wanted to make room in their garage and the car hadn't run since 2000-ish so I took it over.
1. I drained and replaced fuel
2. Borrowed a battery, turned it over, but no spark. Quickly traced to flywheel sensors reading open circuit. Replaced both of those with new ones, and whammo, it turned over and started running for 3-5 seconds...I figured it was running off the CSI and the FI ECU wasn't waking up. The Ignition ECU had to be waking up though, as there was clearly a spark for the engine to get going under CSI.
3. The voltage is lower then 10.5V while cranking. Rather than trace all wires, clean grounds, etc. etc., my quick test was to jump off of my truck. It fired up and I had it idle for 30 minutes or so. Soooooo.....I figure I need to fix the "low voltage problem". There's no rush on my end, so that's a battle for another day.


congrats!!!

here is our little 84 we bought 2 months ago to share the garage with our GTV6. the day we got it/mid paint/day we got it back.

 

·
Registered
Joined
·
7,272 Posts
...As an aside, if that does amount to the root cause, I may consider replacing it with a blade fuse. I'm slightly allergic to bullet fuses...
yep, I would do it.
Couple of dollars later and you have peace of mind!
The bullet fuse holder for fuel pumps is a common problem on the S3.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
20 Posts
Your top seem like vinyl, as opposed to canvas?
Have you considered some type of "Flex Seal" augmented with an actual patch? Depending on the nature of the hole of course.
Otherwise congrats on your progress!
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
47 Posts
Discussion Starter #33 (Edited)
vinyl top, yes. But that's a project for another time.

Fuel system is number one priority now. I just pulled these for servicing, and will be replacing the fuel pumps, filter, etc. (Placing the order tonight). Far right injector is #1, and is the one I was grousing about in the "what did you do today" thread.
 

Attachments

·
Registered
Joined
·
488 Posts
vinyl top, yes. But that's a project for another time.

Fuel system is number one priority now. I just pulled these for servicing, and will be replacing the fuel pumps, filter, etc. (Placing the order tonight). Far right injector is #1, and is the one I was grousing about in the "what did you do today" thread.
Did your hard seals stay in the head? Dont lose them or you will have to beg someone to print some new ones.. are you sending your injectors to Cruzinperformance? I highly recommend them.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
47 Posts
Discussion Starter #35
Those hard phenolic or whatever seals are in the head, and, yes, the injectors are on their way to cruzinperformance.
I'm sure I'll have questions when my rockauto box o' pumps shows up and when the injectors arrive.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
488 Posts
Awesome! Sounds like that battle is just about over.... post your chart from Cruzin when you get it back, I would be interested to see that!
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
488 Posts
Wow. Your injectors needed that! Although within their tolerances, #1 is the odd one out..... thanks for posting results!
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
47 Posts
Discussion Starter #39 (Edited)
Tell me about it. I have to believe it'll run a little...better. BTW, where are the specs?
Just calculated - pulsed test w/i 6%, continuous w/i 2%. It's a whole lot better than when I pulled them.
 
21 - 40 of 53 Posts
Top