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my .02, have someone who is Alfa savy look at it and do a proper PPI
you have time to address whatever comes out of that, write a list if needed, and tackle it as you want
I'll let others chime in on Cont Motors, but that wouldnt be my choice of people to work with, ever.
Way too many others who are all but Alfa only with decades of experience that will walk you thru soup to nuts on what you have and what to do
call and get one of these 4 as they are all beyond experts: Tom, Larry, Glenn or Phil and trailer the car there, especially now with wet weather, not worth taking the risk.
pm me if you want to talk and we'll exchange numbers, Im at Race & the Alameda in SJ
Peter
 

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yes, thank you BHCC, sorry but not the best rep out there and this is why
not that it isnt fixable and truthfully, getting a fresh tune-able suspension on any alfa is like magic
set up right, its night n day.
seriously, get an inspection by intelligent life so you wont be surprised or at least as much later on
ie engine,drive shaft donuts, trans, dif, brakes, everything looked at
 

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Discussion Starter #125
yes, thank you BHCC, sorry but not the best rep out there and this is why
not that it isnt fixable and truthfully, getting a fresh tune-able suspension on any alfa is like magic
set up right, its night n day.
seriously, get an inspection by intelligent life so you wont be surprised or at least as much later on
ie engine,drive shaft donuts, trans, dif, brakes, everything looked at
Gave Freeman Frame a quick call. Unfortunately, I wont be able to bring the car in until Monday so this will be a long wait...
 

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Having built race cars and restored many 105's..... I have to say that your car has taken a BIG hit in the front!

Forget about the distance between the tyre and the fender. Need to measure the center points between front and rear wheels on both sides and compare, should also do a diagonal measurement both sides. This will give a better indication on how square the car is....

Frankly, I would not be spending any money on suspension until you know the frame is square.

Getting everything lined up correctly, so that engine mounts, suspension mounts etc. are all ready to accept new parts without any modification.

Also, not sure how you can tell it has been driven for decades. The shunt may have occurred 10-15 years ago and it has been sitting since because it was such a bad repair.....

.... this would be my line of action before spending any other $$
 

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71 Berlina 74 GTV 17 Giulia Q4
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You will find that the wait until Monday will be the shortest you have to wait. Unfortunately you are in for a lot of long waits. I bought another GTV in Austin and a good friend insisted I borrow his Tahoe and trailer to go get it. I left my newly restored blue GTV with him when we switched cars. He has an old 911 I rebuilt the motor on so I felt comfortable with him having my car. I get back and my phone rings Monday morning. He had driven down his 1/4 mile concrete driveway to the highway to get the paper. He gets out and leaves it sitting there (fully functioning E brake but you have to use it for it to work) so the car rolls down a hill and crashes into two trees. Front left and drivers door. The car was shorter by almost 2 inches on the left side. It went in the shop in July and I got it back 15 months later. Your car really needs to be fixed and not just patched back together, that's already been done. I take no joy in saying this but I feel I should since I went through kinda the same thing. You might find this image useful, I know I did.
 

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I’m with Jay, Backto105, and others. There are serious issues with this car, get the chassis onto a jig and get it checked. No amount of aftermarket bolt on parts will overcome an out of square frame.

For sure I wouldn’t risk my own or others safety by driving it in the meantime. Good luck.
 

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BTW... in one of your photos. I think I can see the date on the tyre... looks like 3501 or 3504?

Either way, would mean the tyres are either 17 years or 14 years old, which would tend to say that the car has not done many miles in the last 15 years or so....
 
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Yes, you can do that tonight, measure both sides and then corner to corner
Be sure Freeman knows you're looking to have frame checked for square, not just a wheel alignment.
fyi, here are some numbers just to save you time:
Tom Sahines, 408.859.8133, Alfa Guru, Alfa tech contact local and nat'l alfa club? for giulia and giulietta, knows every resource known to man Alfa wise and then some
APE, 209.365.1383, Larry Sr & Jr, they take Alfas apart for a living and then Jr re-engineers them to fit other Alfas
Phil Mason, Phils Foreign Auto. 831.479.0544, One man show in Santa Cruz, Ace mechanic, engineer, race tech guru. Bit gruf, shops a mess, but if he takes it on, it will be done right with zero bs.
Glenn Olivera, Olivera Eng 510.849.3384, only shop that I have heard of that will let you work on your own car, at his place, with Glenn helping out. Prior approval and possible initiation a strong probability. Avid racer, all around amazing guy. https://www.yelp.com/biz/oliveria-engineering-berkeley
As you can tell, huge enthusiast group here for resources, anything you may run into, this group has tackled, so utilize it as you tackle this and breathe new life back into its lil italian heart. it will be worth it in the end.
Cheers
 

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Discussion Starter #131
You will find that the wait until Monday will be the shortest you have to wait. Unfortunately you are in for a lot of long waits. I bought another GTV in Austin and a good friend insisted I borrow his Tahoe and trailer to go get it. I left my newly restored blue GTV with him when we switched cars. He has an old 911 I rebuilt the motor on so I felt comfortable with him having my car. I get back and my phone rings Monday morning. He had driven down his 1/4 mile concrete driveway to the highway to get the paper. He gets out and leaves it sitting there (fully functioning E brake but you have to use it for it to work) so the car rolls down a hill and crashes into two trees. Front left and drivers door. The car was shorter by almost 2 inches on the left side. It went in the shop in July and I got it back 15 months later. Your car really needs to be fixed and not just patched back together, that's already been done. I take no joy in saying this but I feel I should since I went through kinda the same thing. You might find this image useful, I know I did.
I just hope it isn't nearly as bad. The picture is a bit cryptic regarding the exact location of the red dots but without a lift, I cannot measure them accurately anyhow. What I do know is that the distance front to rear wheel is 92in on passenger side and 93in on driver side. What I don't know is if this is due to the suspension set up with its bent rods or whether that screwy setup is there to compensate for changed geometry due to the shunt.
 

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71 Berlina 74 GTV 17 Giulia Q4
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On a totally unrelated note I think there is another difference between Euro and US 105s, maybe:) I don't see a radiator overflow tank. What leads me to believe they didn't have them the is previous photos of the radiator show the overflow nipple at the cap comes out the side and not straight back like US cars. Pure speculation but it appears the overflow hose comes out the side across the top of the radiator and down the left side and open to the environment. At this point I figure a little subject change can't hurt:)
 
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Discussion Starter #133
Yes, you can do that tonight, measure both sides and then corner to corner
Be sure Freeman knows you're looking to have frame checked for square, not just a wheel alignment.
fyi, here are some numbers just to save you time:
Tom Sahines, 408.859.8133, Alfa Guru, Alfa tech contact local and nat'l alfa club? for giulia and giulietta, knows every resource known to man Alfa wise and then some
APE, 209.365.1383, Larry Sr & Jr, they take Alfas apart for a living and then Jr re-engineers them to fit other Alfas
Phil Mason, Phils Foreign Auto. 831.479.0544, One man show in Santa Cruz, Ace mechanic, engineer, race tech guru. Bit gruf, shops a mess, but if he takes it on, it will be done right with zero bs.
Glenn Olivera, Olivera Eng 510.849.3384, only shop that I have heard of that will let you work on your own car, at his place, with Glenn helping out. Prior approval and possible initiation a strong probability. Avid racer, all around amazing guy. https://www.yelp.com/biz/oliveria-engineering-berkeley
As you can tell, huge enthusiast group here for resources, anything you may run into, this group has tackled, so utilize it as you tackle this and breathe new life back into its lil italian heart. it will be worth it in the end.
Cheers
Thanks for all that info. The gentleman at Freeman actually mentioned that they work with Tom so that's the second time I heard that name in the same day.

Having a community that cares about these cars is definitely extremely helpful. My aim is to keep this thing on the road but for that, it has to be enjoyable. The frame issue is make or break time for the car now.
 

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Thanks for all that info. The gentleman at Freeman actually mentioned that they work with Tom so that's the second time I heard that name in the same day.

Having a community that cares about these cars is definitely extremely helpful. My aim is to keep this thing on the road but for that, it has to be enjoyable. The frame issue is make or break time for the car now.
Quite a few responses to your initial post, the upside is this, given time, patience, and budget: you will wind up with a vehicle that has a well-documented restoration. A Euro-spec GTV is a most enjoyable driver and ROI ain't bad either... keep posting.
 

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Aggie57 said:
No amount of aftermarket bolt on parts will overcome an out of square frame.
The frame issue is make or break time for the car now.
Right, the frame is a make or break issue. Buying go-fast parts from Alfaholics is fun, but as Aggie57 points out, if your unibody is tweaked, that problem needs to be addressed first. If the unibody can't be fixed, there's no sense in having a box of expensive AH parts gathering dust in your garage.

I'm not trying to scare you - most likely Freeman Frame will sort things out - but talk of bolting on cool parts and driving the car as-is seems premature at this point.
 

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Discussion Starter #136
update: pulling the frame

This week has been a bit hectic work wise but I had dropped the car off at Freeman Frame on Monday. We were consulting with Tom Sahines and after checking the existing condition, they will be pulling it today or tomorrow. The existing geometry was out of range to adjust for during alignment. I hope this works and I should know the results in the next couple days before taking the next steps.
 

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I'm glad you have the right people on this. You are to be congratulated for that. The guy that did mine never heard of the 3rd law of motion. Sure he got the front pulled out but not before he ripped the rear jack point ka ka along with the rear trailing arm mount. It all got fixed but I had to really stay on top of that guy. Thanks for the update!
 

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That's what I feared given the source (BHCC), they have that reputation for buying cars that wrapped around trees that no-one else would buy... It all can be fixed, it's just a matter of calculations now... Best of luck on the frame pull !!!!

If it helps I once bought an early 911 that turned out to have been spliced from 2 cars, with 3 VIN !!! BTDT, got the Tshirt... I cut my losses on that one, I hope you get to keep it...
 

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I'm glad you have the right people on this. You are to be congratulated for that. The guy that did mine never heard of the 3rd law of motion. Sure he got the front pulled out but not before he ripped the rear jack point ka ka along with the rear trailing arm mount. It all got fixed but I had to really stay on top of that guy. Thanks for the update.

And that happened because you knew how to do bodywork and knew what to look for. Left to their own sense of "quality" that shop would have just shoved a botched and welded "frame straightened" car off on a unsuspecting regular customer who they figured wouldn't know the difference. In fact THEY didn't know the difference until you told 'em! At least they stayed with the job once you started telling them what they needed to do. I thought for a long time that they were just going to shove it out the door and write the whole thing off. Scheech.
 

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Discussion Starter #140
cutting bait..

The verdict from the body shop was that they could try to pull the frame but that they were worried about causing other damage. What scared me was that the likelihood of introducing new stresses to the body panels which could then damage the paint on what is otherwise a good looking car was just too high.

Pulling the frame might work but the cost of the unintended consequences are potentially far too high to risk it. It is better to sell the car as is, a basically good vehicle for weekends and getting coffee. Alas, that's what I am looking for ;(
 
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