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What is wrong with the world at the moment!

We are in a time of fuel price increases and many safety brigades wanting autonomous cars due to safety concerns and stupid car manufacturers are creating cars with simply too much horsepower for the PUBLIC road.

No car needs 600hp! ... honestly how small are the designers and prospective buyers penises.


My 156v6 has a mere 200hp on a good day and that is all you need for a fun, involving, quick and safe road car.
Pete
 

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Agreed. How is a 2500-2800 lb coupe with 180-230 HP and a 5 or 6 speed manual not the perfect modern sports car? Light, quick, nimble, great looking...

What is this for? What will it cost? Is it the underpinnings of a new Charger or something? It appears to be a shortened Giulia chassis.
 

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Yes I'd like to see Alfa Romeo be brave enough to make a car like you suggest and win comparison tests because it is a better, more involving to drive, sounds best, etc., car ... but not the fastest.
As Craig said, Alfa Romeo did exactly that with the 4C.

They did OK in comparison tests, but often were criticized in comparison to the Porsche Boxter/Cayman for being less refined, or too hardcore for daily use.

The GTV/Giulia Coupe is not supposed to be a replacement for the 4C, it is aimed at a completely different demographic.
 

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Yes I'd like to see Alfa Romeo be brave enough to make a car like you suggest and win comparison tests because it is a better, more involving to drive, sounds best, etc., car ... but not the fastest.
Pete
The trouble these days is that somewhere along the line manufacturers got caught up in the numbers game and consumers started choosing products with the largest numbers regardless of their usability. Maybe it was the computer game that started it all back in the late 80s when Windows machines kept cranking up the numbers on their processors and people bought them based on that despite their unreliability and non friendly interfaces. The numbers race then spread to other products and became a major factor in consumer choice, despite some people trying to convince them it wasn’t everything. People will buy a HIFI that boasts ridiculously inflated and bogus output power with crap sound over one with far less power but nicer sound. Nobody needs a thousand watt stereo, even if that figure was actually true. Alfa have been caught up in that bs and feel they have to make cars with insane horsepower. That being said the majority of their sales are for the lower powered models. The 4C suffered from low power numbers, despite the fact that 240 HP is more than enough to make it an absolute projectile. I’m sure they would have sold more if that number was much higher. Electric cars like Teslas rely on stupidly high power figures to sell. The fact that they have little else going for them doesn’t seem to matter to buyers. I don’t know how the public can be re-educated. My GT has 250 HP and will get me into trouble with the law very quickly but the power is usable. I doubt that owners of Giulia QVs would ever use more than that on public roads, but overall sales would suffer if Alfa didn’t make a halo model like that.
 

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I'm not suggesting they make a 4c version of a coupe, but just a really driver focused sensibly powered car. (Although a carbon chassised coupe would be awesome, fully trimmed and sound proofed).

Chasing hp and performance numbers is magazine/teenage boy stuff, and 5 minutes after it's released somebody beats the numbers.

Time to get off that treadmill and show some maturity Alfa Romeo!

Alfa Romeo needs to be the first manufacturer to remind the world why many of us love driving. Jeremy Clarkson gets it; his review of the 166 nails it perfectly. If you haven't read it, find it and do.

Best steering, best throttle response, best brake feel, best gearchange feel (if they have to use paddles, using them should feel like you are mechically changing cogs, not just switching a micro switch), best exhaust note, best turn in, perfect chassis balance, etc.
Pete
 

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Geeze... The best thing to happen to our classic Alfas is FCA bringing Alfa back to the USA and bringing out new models. If you don't need 600 hp there's a pedal just to the right of the brake - don't press it down so hard.

Do you really think the numbers game is a new thing? Muscle cars from the sixties were a study in marketing numbers. Was it necessary for Cadillac to build a V12 or Packard a V16 in the 1930s? Hell, look at ads for Model T bragging about their whopping 20 hp! Numbers sell cars. And selling cars for profit the last time I checked is why car companies exist. That's pretty much the whole point in a capitalist system...

Being born, raised and live in the Detroit area I naturally know more than a few car designers. Almost all that I know, regardless of who they work for are gearheads in general and huge Alfa fans in particular. Some of them lurk on this BB. They design and build these cars from a position of passion. But they get green lighted because they are offering a product that the public wants.

I really don't get the attitude that no matter what these guys put out it's too big, too small, too fast, too slow, too powerful, too gutless, too pretty, too ugly, blah, blah, blah.

Maybe, just maybe you are just not the target market...
 

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Yes I'm not the target market, but my point was more that the auto industry imo is not helping its future.

My point; these stupidly powerful cars just waste our resources, upsetting greenies and also hardly appropriate for the current world position on the automobile, which is it is an evil thing ... so Alfa in a rebirthing phase makes a stupid car, brilliant not.

My next point is we have governing departments pushing the autonomous car because they believe the death of humans by a car is unacceptable (but turn a blind eye when a country is at war with its own people ... weird) so what does Alfa Romeo do?, it creates a car that 99% of the population do not haven't skill and judgement to drive safely.

So sure a few teenaged will knock a few out when reading magazine articles but most mature people, yep Alfas market, will think what a stupid overkill of a car because the company lacks confidence to just design a good car ...

Honestly if hp mattered that much, none of us would ever buy an Alfa. It's not the 30s anymore, fuel is now expensive!
Pete
 

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Yep, all these car designers and executives are no talent idiots that haven't a clue what's going on in the industry that they've dedicated their lives to. They've done such a bad job that they can barely sell 80 million cars a year (with EVs leading the way with whopping 1.7% of the market). Obviously nobody wants these gas guzzling, environment killing machines...

And nothing worries me more then millions of teenagers and unqualified drivers screaming around the streets in their $100,000, 600 hp supercars smashing into things. It will surely be an epidemic of epic proportion.

If only we could have a global design police that would limit the new GTV to a 40 hp EV autonomous vehicle - it would be a huge success, there'd be no more accidents and world peace ...
 

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I guess I am also surprised that people are being so dismissive of the new GTV. I think this model could be very good for Alfa, and might just be the enthusiast's car people here are wanting.

If the fact that the car is stated to have "more than 600bhp" is what is turning people off to the new model, I wouldn't worry. The specs they are touting are obviously for the top of the range model. You don't have to buy that one.

From what I know, they are also likely to have the following powertrain options available:


  • The "base" 2 liter turbocharged 4-cylinder, with 280bhp
  • A rumored mild-hybrid 2 liter turbocharged 4-cylinder, with about 350bhp
  • The current 2.9 liter twin-turbocharged V6 with 505bhp
  • The diesel option from the current Giulias (ROW only - no US availability)

That is 4 other engine options that may be available in the new GTV. Remember, this wasn't revealed as an actual model announcement, it was part of a presentation to investors/shareholders.
 

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We liked the old one !

Question: What is the reaction of the Alfisti when Alfa releases a new model ?

Answer: We liked the old one, and this new one is rubbish.

Seriously,the Duetto is now properly regarded as a pinnacle of automotive design and styling. When it came out, the reaction was "We liked the Giulia, we hate this".

The Duetto was criticized for it's "weird" shape, that it looked the same front and back blah, blah blah. The harsh response contributed to Alfa releasing the square tail spider, a few years later, kind of like, okay you whiners how do you like this one? can you figure out the front, from the back now?

The 4C will go out of production shortly, about five years from that event, expect to see retrospectives about how amazing the 4C was, how it was such an un-compromised pure driver's car, how a car like that will never come our way again and so on.
 

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Petrol is so expensive in much of the world that I couldn't run a 600hp car. In fact this weekend we've gone away and took the little 1000cc Vitz to save fuel $'s.

I realise the rich wouldn't have this issue but I really think that this is a car designed for the past, and gprocket it does happen. Holden Australia spend 4 billion (I believe) designing the last rwd new Commodore about 5 (?) years ago and the first journalist question at its release was regarding its fuel economy ... the head of Holden said "er, we have other cars for that" ... fast forward and Australia has closed its car industry.

Ford with their new supercar showed forward thinking. Yes it's a very powerful v6 but not what most expected.

To get young people, their future market, the top of the range should have been the turbo 4 with big comments about fuel efficiency and environment, and bring back full involvement driving.
Pete
 

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The 600hp power will be produce by hybrid technology added to the 2.9 twin turbo. So added to the front wheel it ll be an four wheel drive. Nothing too crazy. On highway if you don t push it the V6 is reasonable in gas consumption. Same in city. I don t see the problem.
 
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