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Discussion Starter #61 (Edited)
Dunno if I like the white spoiler on the back. To my mind, doesn't look quite right. But, that's just MHO. Nothing to do with it being graphite or whatever. Having said that, though, I don't care too much for black wheels.

Nice looking otherwise with the silver wheels.
Not sure you like anything past the 164 Del. hahaha!
I think it looks good and I guess that's all the matters. Wheels came anthracite, I had no choice. Not my favorite at all but the color is more bronze/anthracite rather than black. I cannot stand black wheels at all. I want silver when I have the funds to buy another set of wheels.

I was on the fence with the spoiler but I like it now. I love this car, it is so fun to drive and looks fantastic! Just like the 164, everyone wants to talk to me about it.
 

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No, no, I said 'white' spoiler. Not just a spoiler, period. It looks ok in my book, lol.
 

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Those lip spoilers are similar to a Gurney flap, I suspect. They improve the Kamm effect when installed on a trunk lid because there isn't any airflow below the spoiler. Without airflow below the spoiler they can't generate downforce by acting as an upside down airfoil. But they can and do reduce drag and lift forces on the trunk lid area of the car. The Kamm effect drags stalled air behind the car reducing form drag. One drawback is the lip will cause dirt and water/snow to be trapped in the stalled air the lip spoiler drags behind the vehicle. You will be cleaning your tail lights fairly often.
 

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There can often be a reverse 'burble' of air flowing up and forward onto the trunk lid of many cars, causing separation of the airflow coming aft from the roof of the car. This separation can create drag and instability. A spoiler can prevent that reverse burble and allow the airflow off the roof to stay more smoothly attached. The spoiler as designed doesn't create a down force directly but does reduce the lift caused by the airflow instabilities. I've watched wind tunnel tests demonstrating this.
 

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The lip spoiler can also extend the boundary layer effect beyond the body of the car, the so called Kamm effect. In essence, the car drags a body of relatively motionless air behind it, mimicing a long teardrop tail. The airflow acts as if the car body really is extended reducing net drag. The drag would still be lower if the car body actually were extended to the theoretical teardrop but the shape would be impractical. Porsche fully explored the practical limits of this effect with their seminal 917 prototype racer.

The big question for an aftermarket lip spoiler design is whether it is correct for the particular car shape. Problem is modern manufacturers rarely miss an easy opportunity to reduce drag.
 

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"The drag would still be lower if the car body actually were extended to the theoretical teardrop but the shape would be impractical"

True, up to a point, as the boundary layer on the surface always becomes less laminar but developing an increasing and thicker turbulent layer, increasing the skin friction drag coefficient. In other words, the tail can be too long, thus creating a crossover point in the associated drag curves.

As Michael points out, though, we don't need to worry about it, as no practical ground vehicle, as compared to, say, commercial aircraft, will never have a fuselage and tail cone that long.

Whereas the average older automobile has an overall drag coefficient of ~0.30/0.32, newer designed vehicles have achieved lower drag coefficients of ~0.27/0.28, including Alfa, which produced a low drag option for the new Giulia (model AE, discontinued in 2019), with a very low coefficient of ~0.23, except that the regular Giulia is listed as having a coefficient of 0.32, the front end not as sleek as the 164 for instance.

In comparison, the Alfa 164 has a coefficient of ~0.30, slightly better than average for it's age of production, and the nicely shaped Tesla model S is ~0.025.
 

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We ain't building F-18 Super Hornets here to replace F-18 Legacy Hornets that the Blues have been flying since the late 80's about time the 164 came out. I crewed up/grew up on MACD F-4B models and ended un in F-4J Models in the Blues in 71. Long time in passing is a line from a song whose title and other lyrics escape me at the moment.

Accept that the past is the past and let's just move on. I couldn't afford a new Giulia when it first came out nor a new Stelvio so what have I done? I kept my 164s 2each type L and S and my 04 WJ Jeep Grand Overland and bought ML her very own new used 2017 Jeep Grand Limited with 295 HP 32v 3.6L w/8-speed paddle shifting with Sport mode.

Life is to short to bicker among Alfisti.

Jason I still wish I had gotten copies of that WHITE lip spoiler yu had on your 164. Had a chance to buy last two guy had and balked at $200 each.

Del POI I took both deck lid and spoiler system off my 164S and stored it. I installed a spare 164L lid I had in stock.
 

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"Accept that the past is the past and let's just move on"

"Life is to short to bicker among Alfisti"

Oh, I think we have moved on, we're just kind of yakking about interesting things somewhat pertaining to the new Giulia.

Steve, I could have gone with that spoiler Jason had on his 164. Nice and neat.

Who knows, maybe some day, if we come across a hot deal, we might look at a Giulia, esp if I cannot find someone to do some certain serviceson what we have (of course, some I do, have for years), since I have found Carlo is becoming very difficult to contact, alas.

The trouble around here is that for the new Giulia, the dealers are not very close, a ways away through always very heavy traffic, except for Ferrari/Alfa of Seattle, with whom I've never been terribly fond of, although I suppose...
 

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"Where have all the flowers gone?" A vaguely anti war song made popular by the folk group: Peter, Paul and Mary in the 60's...along with Puff the magic dragon.

An important factor to remember when comparing Cd numbers is that it is not an indicator of total drag. On the contrary, it merely compares total drag of a particular 3D form with the total drag of a 2D plate with the same maximum cross sectional area.

Low Cd means nothing without knowing the cross section being measured.
 

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These drag numbers are often measured and confirmed in wind tunnels using either scale or full sized models (preferably on a moving ground plane and spinning tires to simulate the moving vehicle on pavement), something I used to do in my earlier years.

We even tested a model of the Seattle Space Needle (the restaurant lifted off and flew down the tunnel at 100 mph, lol). And, a model of the famous Tacoma Galloping Gertie bridge had also been tested, confirming that the problem was, for the most part, the contractor changing a relatively suitable design and causing aero instabilities, known as alternating Von Karman vortices shedding, forcing the roadbed up and down in a wind.

Anyway, I wonder if anyone every bought the low Cd version of the Giulia. Must of been different to drive, what with the funny tires and other changes made in it, such as being lowered, at least in the front.
 

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Del,

Regarding the "low drag option for the [952] Giulia (model AE ... )," what is your source for this information as I'm unable to locate anything? In what markets was this option available?

It would appear that the diagonal strakes on the fenders which extend into the rear lighting-clusters serve an aerodynamic purpose. Please offer your thoughts/comments on these.
 

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Discussion Starter #73
Del,

Regarding the "low drag option for the [952] Giulia (model AE ... )," what is your source for this information as I'm unable to locate anything? In what markets was this option available?

It would appear that the diagonal strakes on the fenders which extend into the rear lighting-clusters serve an aerodynamic purpose. Please offer your thoughts/comments on these.

Giulia Advanced Efficiency
At the 2016 Paris Motor Show the Giulia's economic version called "AE" - Advanced Efficiency was unveiled. The AE was available with the Giulia and Giulia Super trim levels, it has 180 PS (132 kW; 178 hp) diesel engine and an 8-speed automatic transmission. The fuel consumption combines to 4.2 L/100 km (67 mpg‑imp; 56 mpg‑US) and just 99 g/km of CO2 emissions in the combined cycle. It has some specific technical solutions to achieve these values like implementation of a low-pressure EGR valve that improves engine efficiency, an air-water intercooler, a secondary engine cooling circuit in addition to the primary circuit, and specific gearbox ratios. The height of the car's body is lowered by 5 mm (0.2 in), it has specifically designed alloy wheels and the drag coefficient has been reduced to 0.23 for less drag force. The Giulia "AE" Advanced Efficiency is fitted with specific 205/60 R16 tyres for reducing rolling resistance. It was discontinued beginning with 2019 model year.

SOURCE: "New Term Updates for the Alfa Romeo Giulia and Stelvio This September" (Press release). 17 August 2018. Retrieved 2 February 2019.
 

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Why not use those wheels and whatever else so all models were low drag? Don't get that. Nobody wants high drag, ever, on a road car. Strange
Pete
 

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Perhaps the wheels were funny looking or didn't provide adequate cooling for the brakes in enthusiastic driving, which some Alfa drivers seem to do, lol.

Also, the high efficiency tires they used were most likely not built/designed for cornering capability as Alfa drivers otherwise would want.

Obviously they decided that high efficiency wasn't everything to the potential Giulia buyer, and probably didn't sell any. Off with it's head.

As for the diagonal shapes at the rear, might be a small bit of aero tailoring back there to better control the side airflow/body separation, perhaps to add a slight bit of better lateral stability in cross winds? Just a guess at this point.
 

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Why not use those wheels and whatever else so all models were low drag? Don't get that. Nobody wants high drag, ever, on a road car. Strange
Pete
Yes but those same nobodies also don't want 205/60x16 tires....

Alfa may have been shooting for an average fleet fuel economy figure, who knows. 4.2 l/100km is pretty amazing fuel consumption for such a big car. Gear ratios were different presumably to achieve such low consumption. Slow and fuel efficient diesel....yawn.

Low drag is one thing but driving a car so slow and dull as to be a drag is not so appealing, as the market informed Alfa, apparently.
 

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Discussion Starter #77
Why not use those wheels and whatever else so all models were low drag? Don't get that. Nobody wants high drag, ever, on a road car. Strange
Pete
Most people in the market for Alfa want sporty looks, performance and handling. All of those do not work on the AE model. 205 tires on this car would look weird and not sell well. I know I know, they probably or theoretically handle better than the 225-285/19 tires on all models now but they would not make it look hot.

Really, how much drag are we talking here between the models?? NOT MUCH and in-fact all those drag numbers are semi theoretical.

So not that strange to me they dumped the model. I would not get onboard with an Alfa like this. Not sure many would.
 
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