[Hornelas]

Howdy All.
The time has come for me to part with my 73 Spider. I no longer have time or room for it and I don't want to see it deteriorate and get banged up in my crowded garage.

I’m hoping I could get some insight and opinions on what a fair asking price would be for my car. I purchased the car from the original owner's son some 19 or so years ago. He gave me a folder full of service records so I know his dad took good care of the car before his son got his hands on it. I purchased the car with body damage and in need of some TLC.

I spent a ton of time working on this car over the years(good therapy). I replaced most of the things that one would expect to go bad with one of these lovely cars. Most of the mechanical refurbishing and parts renewal on the list below were done at the beginning of covid when I had some extra time on my hands.

It's a southern California car with current registration and located in the Los Angeles area. I listed both the good and not so good so that it would hopefully represent an honest assessment of the car. I’m sure I’m missing something but it’s a good starting point.

I honestly don’t know how much to ask for it and I’m not sure I’m interested in an auction site. I hope to get a sense of a fair value and I’ll put it for sale once I assess the input.

I really appreciate any input or advice.

The Good Stuff:

Rust free

Purchased from original owners son

Repainted around 10 or so years ago, looks nice but has a few issues. Presents well except for the nose damage(thanks to my wife).

New rubber everywhere (doors, all windows, trunk, hood, etc)

Side makers shaved (plates welded. Wiring still exists)

71 front bumpers plus 73 spare parts

New centerline springs

New Koni shocks

New read end bump stops

New rear end limit straps

Neoprene bushings installed in rear end

Front suspension refresh

New sway bar bushings

Rebuilt brakes calipers

Stainless brake lines

New wheel bearings and seals

Newer brake rotors

New brake pads

New brake master cylinder

New brake booster

New clutch master cylinder

New clutch slave cylinder

New aluminum spica linkage ends

Newish distributor cap, rotor, plugs and wires

All fuel lines replaced

Refurbished ZF steering box (leaky Burman steering box included)

Electric fan upgrade(original parts included)

All heater hoses replaced

New thermostat and gaskets

New Valve cover gasket and rubber plugs

Valve cover painted with wrinkle finish paint(looks sharp)

Refurbished rear end (cleaned, painted and replaced all the seals and bearings)

Redline used on rear and trans

Tires are in great shape, look new but installed several years ago

Original rubber mats

Bluetooth sound system with custom plate(no modifications to dash)

Insolation on floor board

Rubberized asphalt sound deadening tiles on floorboard and firewall

Wheel alignment completed

Newer battery

Custom exhaust, from manifold to the back

Reviewed and cleaned all wiring

New trunk carpet

Jack repainted

Lots of misc parts, hardware and thingies included

Presents well, a good fun driver

Most of the things that can break or wear out on you have been replaced.



The Not so good stuff:

Salvage title (car had body damage, too expensive for insurance 20 years ago when I bought it)

Front cone damage, my wife backed into the car in the driveway(argh! After all this work!)

A few chips throughout (thanks kids)

Bumper trim need some polishing and TLC

2nd gear grind, not terrible just need to ease it in

Needs a new top, the cloth has areas of wear and the plastic window is cloudy and cracked(it may be repairable, I don't know. The frame is in good working order.

Thermostatic actuator needs to be rebuilt or replaced (currently adjusted for full warm up, it doesn’t expand long enough)

Rear bumper is pushed in a bit, easy to straighten out. Never bothered to install it, , I like the look without it.

Heater coil leaks, not sure if it's the connectors or the coil itself. It’s currently bypassed

Heater fan is not working. It was working before the leak. Electrical circuit works. Most likely rusted so it won’t spin. Should be easy to fix when you get to it.

Needs little finishing touches throughout the interior

I have a lot more work in progress pictures

 

[goats]

I'd think 12-15K is not unreasonable for that car as a lower threshold?

 

[jbbosco]

I'd share a few additional exterior photos of the car as it stands today, including the front end damage and with bumpers installed (I assume you have a rear bumper?). That should generate more interest in this thread. If it runs and drives as good as the engine bay, suspension and brakes look, you're on your way to a potential $15-20k sale. but to get that (or more) you'll probably need to spend another $3-5k, depending on local shop rates. Most wouldn't want to pay that kind of money for a car with a salvage title, but would probably overlook that with a clean body and top. The actuator will take a long time to get rebuilt; I know Ingram Enterprises has quite a backlog, so I'd leave that to the new owner. What's a heater coil? Do you mean the heater core? A weekend project to pull out the center console and fix the heating system will be worth the effort.
Spiders are still undervalued, but the S2's are starting to get their fair shake. It's not the ultimate resource for determining FMV for cars, but bringatrailer.com will give you some idea as to what's selling for what as of late. Search for 'Alfa Romeo 105/115 Series Spider', and then you can filter on year and get an idea of what the top sellers look like for 1971-1974. I'm seeing otherwise clean cars with torn tops and ugly interiors (but good seats) going for +$20k.

 

[Del]

Salvage titles might be a problem in some states, but not in others. When our 86 GTV6 was "totaled" by the insurance company due to having a crumpled right front fender, no other damage, it ended up with a salvage title. We bought it from the insurance company and had it easily fixed, and ended up with a legit title from the State, with no problems after the required inspection by the Washington State Patrol Vehicle Inspection Station.

 

[Hornelas]

I'll get some new photos up in a bit to show how it is today. Most of the pictures with exception to the stripped body and newly painted photos are fairly recent. I do have the rear bumper, I'll show that picture as well. The photo where the car is on jacks shows the front end damage. I have the grill but it will require a little TLC.

Yes, I meant heater core.

I believe the story is similar to Del regarding the salvage title. Full write off from insurance due to body damage. I hold a legitimate pink slip and current registration noting "Salvage Title".

I had all body work repaired only be hit again by my wife as she pulled her car out of the driveway. She couldn't see the car behind her, so it wasn't hit very hard. The engine bay still looks as it does in the photo. There are little knicks, scratches, etc around the body. I believe I still have the formula for the paint.

Thanks for the input so far.

More pictures coming shortly.

 

[tadslc]

Considering one in really good shape with little to no issues is probably around $18-$22k, my estimate for your car would be at the most $10K.

Obviously just my opinion but I have a really nice '71 Spider in Silver and I would be thrilled to get $20K for it at this point.

Good luck!

Tad

 

[divotandtralee]

Considering one in really good shape with little to no issues is probably around $18-$22k, my estimate for your car would be at the most $10K.

Obviously just my opinion but I have a really nice '71 Spider in Silver and I would be thrilled to get $20K for it at this point.

Good luck!

Tad

WTB 71 Spider - Exc Original car

WTB '71 Spider - Looking for an excellent, well maintained, original car ideally with documented history. Long time private ownership by Alfa enthusiast is highly desirable. Strongly prefer silver. Leads appreciated. Sold my Duetto, now on to an S2.

www.alfabb.com

BTW I think you are a Tad low

 

[Hornelas]

I just took these pictures. You could see the condition of the top, front damage and paint chips as I mentioned. The car still presents well and is fun to drive. Someone with more energy than me could easily get it to the next level.

The motor runs well and like I had mention with exception to the motor and trans, every other mechanical has been serviced, repaired or replaced(many new parts). All rubber seals are replaced, including all the little annoying pieces of rubber in the window and wings.

 

[Hornelas]

More pics taken today.

 

[jbbosco]

The top isn't terrible, it depends on what part of the country you're in. If it's warm and sunny, it's gonna be down most of the time anyway. A new grille is $200 tops; front bodywork may run a few grand but totally worth it to ask and receive a fair amount for what you put into everything else.

 

[Alfa74Tex]

Nothing statistically credible here, but as a craigslist, eBay, BAT, Hemmings, continual lurker, my amateur's guess is $12K -- with a lot of annoying low-ballers poking at you. The engine and suspension look great. What about compression? Do you have a simple way to measure and post those? As others stated, if the motor is in as good of shape as it looks that would be a big selling point. On the down side, the front of these S2's is the "money shot"! That nose and grill are what people want to see. So its more than just a dent for resale. Under side of the top may be functional, but it looks rough. So when the middle aged guys who want these cars show their wives, hoping for tacit approval, she is going to zone in on the nose and top and say "no way" (unless its an extreme deal). The extra cost to fix those may or may not be reflected in the ultimate net, but you would likely sell it faster. I would also pull out the Sony box speakers for sale pics.

Sorry you have to sell it - this is undoubtably a very good and fun car. Thanks for posting this and it will be interesting to see where it goes.

 

[Hornelas]

The top isn't terrible, it depends on what part of the country you're in. If it's warm and sunny, it's gonna be down most of the time anyway. A new grille is $200 tops; front bodywork may run a few grand but totally worth it to ask and receive a fair amount for what you put into everything else.

I'm in the Los Angeles area so that top down 99.9% of the time. Thanks for the input

 

[Hornelas]

Nothing statistically credible here, but as a craigslist, eBay, BAT, Hemmings, continual lurker, my amateur's guess is $12K -- with a lot of annoying low-ballers poking at you. The engine and suspension look great. What about compression? Do you have a simple way to measure and post those? As others stated, if the motor is in as good of shape as it looks that would be a big selling point. On the down side, the front of these S2's is the "money shot"! That nose and grill are what people want to see. So its more than just a dent for resale. Under side of the top may be functional, but it looks rough. So when the middle aged guys who want these cars show their wives, hoping for tacit approval, she is going to zone in on the nose and top and say "no way" (unless its an extreme deal). The extra cost to fix those may or may not be reflected in the ultimate net, but you would likely sell it faster. I would also pull out the Sony box speakers for sale pics.

Sorry you have to sell it - this is undoubtably a very good and fun car. Thanks for posting this and it will be interesting to see where it goes.

Yes, I'm sorry to see it go to.

 

[Hornelas]

Great information all, I really appreciate it.

I'm going to run a dry and wet compression test in the next day or so.

Do you guys think I should address the heater coil and install a new top? Would I be able to make a margin on that investment?

Thanks again

 

[divotandtralee]

You guys are far too picky... Fix the nose for a thou...All the other stuff seems fresh... More than most cars at the highest level. It's a easy 18-20 in LA. Personally , If you want a CT or LD test .. you the buyer do it. at this level.. I have a car at 77000 miles . I drove it away from the seller with no smoke and no miss and pulls fine without a miss . Isn't that enough? Why does everyone think a car at this level has to have a cranial lobotomy to prove it is a good driver? It's utter BS. Do a valid walk around and drive. and be done with it. The big dollar items are the Spica after that and if you can't figure out if it is amiss.or not . then pass.

 

[jbbosco]

Personally, I want to see S2 spiders fetch $45-60k for quality drivers on a regular basis. People who take good care of their investment deserve what GTV owners/flippers are getting for mediocre specimens. For this to happen, owners need to put the time, effort and an appropriate amount of funds in to their Spider so that the presentation is driver quality with few repairs required by a potential buyer. And it's not just about a last-ditch effort to get the car sold for a quick profit, which ain't gonna happen. As stewards of these future classics, regular maintenance, tasteful and appropriate upgrades, and age mitigation (scrub and/or paint that spot rust away, replace that old worn out trim and top, fix that broken courtesy light, tidy up that engine bay, get that SPICA rebuilt after 100,000 miles) needs to happen in order for the market value to match what a good S2 spider driver is truly worth. If half the spiders on the market require the buyer to actually bring a trailer (or a basket, which seems to be the case), that's not gonna happen anytime soon. My $.02

 

[Alfajay]

I’m hoping I could get some insight and opinions on what a fair asking price would be for my car.

As others have written, somewhere in the low teens - $11K, $12K - may be it. With the damaged nose, bad thermo actuator, leaking heater, opaque back window, uninstalled rear bumper and other needs, buyers will view this as a project car. Anyone paying Santos to fix those issues is going to have to invest a significant amount relative to the purchase price. My perception is that there are fewer buyers out there willing to fix things themselves in order to save money.

I would also pull out the Sony box speakers for sale pics.

Yea, that one might get added to your list as well.

I want to see S2 spiders fetch $45-60k for quality drivers on a regular basis. People who take good care of their investment deserve what GTV owners/flippers are getting for mediocre specimens.

That ignores the fact that S2 spiders are far more common than GT's. In the vintage Porsche world, "the price goes up when the top goes down" because more coupes were sold than convertibles. But the tables are turned with 105 series Alfas (at least here in the US).

 

[Hornelas]

Thanks for all the input. I'm going to spend a couple of weekends to fix the issues below except for the nose damage. Hopefully I recoup the cost.

New top
Heater Core
Install Bumper
Actuator if I could find one.

 

[Alfajay]

Thanks for all the input. I'm going to spend a couple of weekends to fix the issues below except for the nose damage.

I think that will help, yes. Even if these fixes don't increase the selling price significantly, they should make the car sell quicker.

You should at least be able to recover your costs; the only expensive item on your list is the new convertible top (will you install it, or pay a pro?). The other items on your list involve mostly labor plus a few inexpensive parts, so shouldn't cost much as long as you do the work yourself.

 

[Peter A]

Hopefully you can find a decent used TA, that’s a crapshoot but an expensive part new. But, an engine that is hard to start and or runs poorly is a bad selling point.