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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Hey all!

I am finally getting around to the daunted task of trimming the car...adding all the stainless trim, rubber seals etc.

First off, I seem to be having a MAJOR issue with the sill plate on the passenger side. Upon test fitting the sill plate, it seems to sit fine however it is not allowing the door to close, the high part (circle #2 in my little diagram) is making contact with the door. I tried test fitting the drivers side plate and it seems to fit fine, with about 1/4" - 1/2" of clearance between the door and the high part of the sill, which seems about right for the rubber door seal.

Problem is, there doesnt seem to be ANY adjustment on the door sill, I have pushed it as far inward as it will go. The first bend at the edge of the stainless still seems to fit perfectly right on top of the sill (circle #1 on my diagram). But for some reason, the whole thing is too far outward. I have measured both sills, and both drivers side and passenger side seem to be identical, with 10mm for the first small lip and 70mm for the next flat part.


Looks like my only option is to cut off the entire first edge of the stainless still in order for it to slide inwards more. Has anyone else encountered this before?
1695241
 

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I had similar fitment issues with my GTV (74) and I ended up doing a couple of things that might help. First, I rebuilt both the driver and passenger door hinges with new pins and bushings. Parts are readily available on Classic Alfa. Over time the hinge pins and bushing can wear and allow the door to droop or sag. I also built a small jig out of wood to hold the door so I could loosen the door at the A-pillar and adjust the door slightly as the attachment points as the cage nuts allow a bit of door rotation -- camber like. You need to be really careful in doing this not to let the door catch the fender...test door clearance carefully and slowly and check door gaps. Finally, you can consider adding shims to the lower hinge if more adjustment is needed. I didn't need to do this but it is a possibility. Once again it will all depend on the extent of the misalignment and the what a shim might do for door gaps.

Having said all this, my sills and rockers were all original and untouched. If someone replaced them perhaps they are sitting up too high?
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
Hmm I will have to see what I can do. The car has had body work and has been all painted,and the doors have been installed and gapped to near perfection. I'd have to adjust the door outward quite a bit for this to fit properly and I dont see how thats possible without having the door stick out of the side quite a bit :(
 

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The car has had body work and has been all painted,and the doors have been installed and gapped to near perfection.
What kind of bodywork? Sills replaced? Are you confident the sills are in the right place - not too high?

I had the same thought as FRANKJOLIVER - that the door is set too low, either due to sagging hinges or just mis-alignment. But if you say the gaps are perfect, then there isn't much that you can change.

Still, those threshold plates fit OK when the car was new, so trimming them doesn't seem right.
 

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What kind of bodywork? Sills replaced? Are you confident the sills are in the right place - not too high?

I had the same thought as FRANKJOLIVER - that the door is set too low, either due to sagging hinges or just mis-alignment. But if you say the gaps are perfect, then there isn't much that you can change.

Still, those threshold plates fit OK when the car was new, so trimming them doesn't seem right.
I'm praying for BH Classics.

By any chance is it the door trim panel that is fouling?, as that is easy to trim ... but if not, welcome to the biggest issue with restoring a 105 series GT/GTV (and maybe any car). These doors must be trial fitted with seals and that trim panel and basically hand fitted

Best of luck. Good door gaps are just the start
Pete
 

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Think that issue can be resolved by hinge shim and alignment. A little adjustment on the top hinge has a large effect on the door alignment as its a long way down to where the door meets the sill! What I have learned is that any job that should take a minute or two takes an hour or two on these cars. What should take an hour or two takes a day! I often think of those men and women in Milan whose job it was to assemble these cars back in the 60's and the inevitable arguments that would erupt on the shop floor in typical Italian style between the designer/engineers and the people who had to build these things! All that arms flailing and finger-pointing! It's unbelievable they ever made any!

If your bodywork didn't include outer sill replacement and the dorrs fitted with the sill plate in place before you did the body restoration and the doors are the same then it will fit! So take a deep breath, and a day, and adjust 'carefully until it fits. Then have a large bowl of Spag Bol for dinner and a glass of Lambrusco as the next day you'll have to then make the door seals fit! :cool:
 

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Discussion Starter · #8 ·
The body work was done about 3-4 years ago (long, typical body shop story) and I am trying to remember if the sills were replaced....I believe the outer skins were replaced, as there are no more holes present for the sill plates. The hinges were replaced with new hardware/hinge pins.

The problem is not the height of the door, as there is clearance below the door. It is the placement of the sill plate laterally on top of the sill. If you look at my drawing above, the sill needs to move INWARDS (RIGHT on my drawing) in order for the door to close and to have enough clearance for the rubber seal. So the only way to adjust this is to move the door OUTWARD by like 1/4-1/2", which would not be ideal because they would be sticking out.

But then again, it seems like there is a lot of adjustment possible with the hinges...I've never done it before, any tips or any best practices? Everything seems perfect right now I dont want to mess with it!
 

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Where your sketch says there is no clearance there should be the groove, in the door frame, for the seal to align. Surely that still exists?

And on that note has the bottom of the door been repaired?

If you are unable to find a solution via adjustment, an option is to modify the door. Less work that modifying the shell, even if the shell is wrong ... and the door can be repainted easier

Pete
 

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Discussion Starter · #10 ·
I added the drivers side to my sketch. So on the drivers side, it seems that the entire sill plate is maybe 1/4" to 1/2" further INWARD than the passenger side. The high part of the sill doesnt touch the door at all, and it seems like that is exactly where the rubber seal would be and everything seems to be perfect.

Passenger side, while there is enough clearance underneath the door, it seems that the edge of the door is making contact with the entire high part of the stainless sill, leaving zero gap for the rubber seal, and also no adjustment for the stainless sill to move further inward (because of the lip at circle #1).

Neither of my doors were repaired in anyway by the body shop....judging by how they did not repair any of the small rust holes at the bottom of the door! Something I only noticed YEARS later!




1695414
 

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BH Classics said:
I am trying to remember if the sills were replaced....I believe the outer skins were replaced,
It would seem that when the work was done to the passenger side sills, that top plate was installed too far to the outside. Correcting that would be the "right" way to fix it, but......

If you are unable to find a solution via adjustment, an option is to modify the door. Less work that modifying the shell, even if the shell is wrong ... and the door can be repainted easier
Pete raises a good point here. But before cutting any metal, here's another question: Are the upholstered panels installed on the doors and is that what's hitting that raised edge of the sill plate? And if so, would the door close if the bottom 1/4 - 3/8" of the door panel was simply cut off? Heck, you could paint the metal exposed below the panel black (or whatever color your upholstery is) and this modification wouldn't be that noticeable.

Of course, if it's the door metal that's hitting, then something more drastic is called for.
 

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Discussion Starter · #12 ·
It would seem that when the work was done to the passenger side sills, that top plate was installed too far to the outside. Correcting that would be the "right" way to fix it, but......



Pete raises a good point here. But before cutting any metal, here's another question: Are the upholstered panels installed on the doors and is that what's hitting that raised edge of the sill plate? And if so, would the door close if the bottom 1/4 - 3/8" of the door panel was simply cut off? Heck, you could paint the metal exposed below the panel black (or whatever color your upholstery is) and this modification wouldn't be that noticeable.

Of course, if it's the door metal that's hitting, then something more drastic is called for.
No sir, haven't even gotten to that point yet, it is metal to metal! The easiest option for me would be to just slice off the last, small 1/4" lip at the edge of the stainless sill so I can slide the whole sill inwards a bit more. But I will leave that as a last option. I'd rather do any metalwork to the stainless sill, rather than any actual body work, as the sill is relatively cheap at less than $200 for a used one if I mess up and need a replacement. But I will have to see if the door has any adjustment first
 

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The easiest option for me would be to just slice off the last, small 1/4" lip at the edge of the stainless sill so I can slide the whole sill inwards a bit more.
Sure. But would that allow the stainless still to move far enough inward? Or would it be stopped too soon by the folded steel coming up from the horizontal part of the sill?

But I will have to see if the door has any adjustment first
Once you fit the rubber seal that surrounds the door opening, you may find that you have to shift the door outward - and lose those perfect gaps - in order to get it to close after a reasonable slam.
 

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Discussion Starter · #14 ·
Sure. But would that allow the stainless still to move far enough inward? Or would it be stopped too soon by the folded steel coming up from the horizontal part of the sill?



Once you fit the rubber seal that surrounds the door opening, you may find that you have to shift the door outward - and lose those perfect gaps - in order to get it to close after a reasonable slam.
Yes there seems to be plenty of room before it hits the folded steel, its not even close to it!

Yes this is something I am afraid of. I have finally reached this whole dreaded door seal project I have read so much about, and now I want to just curl up into the fetal position and cry in the corner of my garage! 🤣😪
 

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No sir, haven't even gotten to that point yet, it is metal to metal! The easiest option for me would be to just slice off the last, small 1/4" lip at the edge of the stainless sill so I can slide the whole sill inwards a bit more. But I will leave that as a last option. I'd rather do any metalwork to the stainless sill, rather than any actual body work, as the sill is relatively cheap at less than $200 for a used one if I mess up and need a replacement. But I will have to see if the door has any adjustment first
 

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No sir, haven't even gotten to that point yet, it is metal to metal! The easiest option for me would be to just slice off the last, small 1/4" lip at the edge of the stainless sill so I can slide the whole sill inwards a bit more. But I will leave that as a last option. I'd rather do any metalwork to the stainless sill, rather than any actual body work, as the sill is relatively cheap at less than $200 for a used one if I mess up and need a replacement. But I will have to see if the door has any adjustment first
If you need to go that route, buy a cheap second hand one, and cut and shut with your existing one to make a wider one. Take it to a fancy metal work place and they will be able to weld and buff so nobody will be able to tell ...

BUT as others have said, you need to check ALL areas of the door opening first. I used to have a full head of hair, and then I started restoring GTV doors ... ;)
Pete
 

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BH Can you take & post a picture of the bottom of your door like Pete's one above ??

Ciao
Greig
 

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Hmmm the door-to-sill joint looks rather tight, you said the top of the door fits well to the body line.

As everything has been painted and looks great, I'd agree that cutting & welding the stainless trim is the least invasive way to go.... a skilled guy with a TIG welder could section that trim & adjust it so that you could still fit the rubber & close the door.

You could always bend the outer turn down lip a little outwards so that it's less than 90* and this would help to move that trim piece inwards a millimeter or two. You could also file the upper welded lip on the sill so that you have a bit more clearance to drop that stainless plate - proper sealing would ensure that there's no potential rust issues there and it's totally hidden under the stainless sill capping.

My 0.02p worth anyway

Aye
Greig
 
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