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Discussion Starter #1
Fellas -

New guy here. Moving to Italy (Naples/Napoli) at the end of June. Plan to buy a vintage Italian car; top of the list is 1750 or 2000 GTV. Will drive it back and forth to work, so not interested in a project car.

Looking for something in nice driver condition; think I should be able to get a pretty nice one for around $20,000 US. I can spend up to $30k US, but don't think that will be necessary.

Plan to live in a gated parco (subdivision) and will have a garage. Have an extensive collection of tools and can do just about anything, up to and including engine and transmission rebuilds.

Think my best bet would be a very nicely preserved and original car with relatively low miles. A nicely restored car would work, too, but don't want to end up shiny paint over a lot of rust and bondo. Having said that, I'm fairly good at detecting shoddy bodywork, rust, bondo, but still leery of something that's had an amateur restoration, several repaints, etc.

Plan to bring the car back to the states with me after my tour is done. Also have some interest in rallies and road racing, so I would consider a car that's been modified a bit, has a cage, etc. Decent chance that I'll end up upgrading brakes, suspension, perhaps drivetrain, too, to have something a bit more capable on a road course.

Curious to hear what y'all would do in my situation. Think subito.it is the best website for used cars. Here's a search for what's available in Lazio (Rome): Annunci Auto Lazio - auto usate Lazio - Subito.it

Here's a search for Campania (Naples): Annunci Auto Campania - auto usate Campania - Subito.it

Thanks!

Scott
 

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Think my best bet would be a very nicely preserved and original car with relatively low miles. A nicely restored car would work, too, but don't want to end up shiny paint over a lot of rust and bondo.
mmmhhhh

Hi Scott,
I live at 80 km from Naples, and I know a lot of "alfa" people, finding a decent 1750 or 2000 is a challenge skill but realizzable if you have time.
As you can see on this site:
ALFA ROMEO Auto e moto d'epoca, storiche, nuove: Annunci Gratuiti - 1
there are many listing about this type of cars, but keep in mind that a correct price for a 1750 or 2000 in your request conditions start from 25k € with original square black plate and restore book and maybe ASI omologation, for a bit lower price, you can search an imported car or a car without original plate (modern plate), after that you can easly be in a "bondo land" (project car)...
For example this car is In Torre del Greco, very near Naples and seem to be in good contitions, obvioulsy in pictures.
Vendo ALFA ROMEO GT 1750 QUADRIFOGLIO ORO (214547) Auto Italy
Other thing is to accurately check the property document (libretto) and complementary sheet (foglio complementare).

Feel free to ask if you need something.

Diego.
 

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Discussion Starter #3
mmmhhhh

Hi Scott,
I live at 80 km from Naples, and I know a lot of "alfa" people, finding a decent 1750 or 2000 is a challenge skill but realizzable if you have time.
As you can see on this site:
ALFA ROMEO Auto e moto d'epoca, storiche, nuove: Annunci Gratuiti - 1
there are many listing about this type of cars, but keep in mind that a correct price for a 1750 or 2000 in your request conditions start from 25k € with original square black plate and restore book and maybe ASI omologation, for a bit lower price, you can search an imported car or a car without original plate (modern plate), after that you can easly be in a "bondo land" (project car)...
For example this car is In Torre del Greco, very near Naples and seem to be in good contitions, obvioulsy in pictures.
Vendo ALFA ROMEO GT 1750 QUADRIFOGLIO ORO (214547) Auto Italy
Other thing is to accurately check the property document (libretto) and complementary sheet (foglio complementare).

Feel free to ask if you need something.

Diego.
Diego -

Thanks for the detailed response. I do have a few questions -

-What is the black plate? Is this the license plate or are you speaking of a data plate that is riveted to the body?

-Restore book - are you referring to a detailed photo album and receipts from a restoration?

-What is ASI omolgation?

-What would be less desirable on a imported car?

-Also, if I am not too concerned with originality, should I just purchase a GT Junior and install a larger engine?

-Is the property document like a title? If so, why should I check this carefully? Is there a potential for fraud or a faked property document?

-Is the complementary document something like what we would call registration in the US?

Sorry for so many questions. I am not new to classic cars, but I've never had a vintage Italian car and have certainly never purchased a car in Italy.

Thanks!

Scott
 

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Diego -

Thanks for the detailed response. I do have a few questions -

1 -What is the black plate? Is this the license plate or are you speaking of a data plate that is riveted to the body?
2 -Restore book - are you referring to a detailed photo album and receipts from a restoration?
3 -What is ASI omolgation?
4 -What would be less desirable on a imported car?
5 -Also, if I am not too concerned with originality, should I just purchase a GT Junior and install a larger engine?
6 -Is the property document like a title? If so, why should I check this carefully? Is there a potential for fraud or a faked property document?
7 -Is the complementary document something like what we would call registration in the US?

Sorry for so many questions. I am not new to classic cars, but I've never had a vintage Italian car and have certainly never purchased a car in Italy.

Thanks!

Scott
Hi Scott I've added numbers and I'll answer your question in order.
1 - The license plate, white lettering on a black background, rectangular in front and square in the back, means that match the correct age of the car (till 1980) and car have a linear past, not imported from other country and/or re-register.
2 - Yes, the datailed photos album about restore process.
3 - ASI is a Automobilclub Storco Italiano, A.S.I. - Automotoclub Storico Italiano they do omologation meeting that certificate the originality of your car, if is all original they release a gold plate (shield form). For many people is a plus and a motivation to raise the price of the car. I don't release an opinion about this..
4 - No difference, but here the collectors prefers cars that stay only here in Italy, due to historic and heritage value.
5 - Yes, here on alfabb you can find a lot of excellent example about that, you can also install a TS engine, check alfaholics site.
6 - Yes, on the "libretto" you can find all about the car, characteristic, registration number, plate number, chassis variation and all past owners. Check the quality of paper for originality.
7 - Yes, you find the past owners in this and if the car is free of legal restriction.

Don't warry about the questions, feel free to ask if you need visual reference.
Diego
 

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Moving to Italy (Naples/Napoli) at the end of June. Plan to buy a vintage Italian car; top of the list is 1750 or 2000 GTV. Will drive it back and forth to work, so not interested in a project car.
Free advice is worth exactly what it costs, so here is some free advice. . .

The first thing you should do when you get to Naples is call Diego and take him to lunch! I say this because the best first step to take when buying a collector car is to get acquainted with its community. The best way to find/buy a car is "within the community".

This works both ways: the seller, an enthusiast, doesn't want to expose himself or his car to the usual retail-car-seller-buyer process, preferring to sell to other enthusiasts in a more informal arrangement. The person buying within the community essentially has the same advantages. You're buying from someone who knows and loves the kind of car you're trying to buy. These kinds sales take place among friends and enthusiasts. That's a big advantage.

Before you start actively looking for a car, spend some time learning all you can about GTV's. The BB is a great resource for learning as there is a wealth of information here. Do be afraid to ask questions.

Once you're settled and are comfortable looking around, find someone who owns a GTV and ask to take a demonstration drive. A short drive in one will give you a lot of information you wouldn't otherwise have.

Another way of finding a good GTV is to visit the shops that work on old Alfas. These are not going to be the new car dealers who generally no net to nothing about old Alfas. These old Alfa shops are usually run by enthusiasts who will have the kind of connections to people who have GTV's that they might want to sell.

When you find a car, make sure to check it out thoroughly! If you can do this yourself---fine. But if you can't, by all means take it to someone who has an intimate knowledge of old Alfa and pay them to do a comprehensive inspection.

Finally, the best advice I can give is this: always buy the best car you can find. There are no good deals. Everyone who owns these cars knows how much they're worth, so trying to find the "little old lady who doesn't know what she has" is pretty much a fantasy in this day and age. You'll save yourself a lot of headaches by paying top price for a great car.

Good luck and keep us posted . . .
 

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I'll be in Europe until mid-May, looking for a Stepnose and Giulia Super/Biscione. Starting in The Netherlands, then to Germany and ending in Italy. Eurail pass in-hand. Tommy cars is one stop (in Italy), where there is a recently restored Stepnose in, I hope, Alfa blue. I'm not opposed to buying two cars if the right opportunities come along. The import paperwork will be there no matter what the quantity.

I want something that is a well restored, high-quality driver. Originality, for me, is a trade-off for performance [mods], as I plan to drive as was intended. If it has a 1300 engine, it will eventually have a 1600 or 1750 under my ownership. While my Western NY region lacks a specialist shop, the various suppliers and depth of experience available on this board makes ownership doable.

I'll end my trip in Rome, but Naples is just a quick hop, and worth the coal-fired pizza alone.
 

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Discussion Starter #7
Hi Scott I've added numbers and I'll answer your question in order.
1 - The license plate, white lettering on a black background, rectangular in front and square in the back, means that match the correct age of the car (till 1980) and car have a linear past, not imported from other country and/or re-register.
2 - Yes, the datailed photos album about restore process.
3 - ASI is a Automobilclub Storco Italiano, A.S.I. - Automotoclub Storico Italiano they do omologation meeting that certificate the originality of your car, if is all original they release a gold plate (shield form). For many people is a plus and a motivation to raise the price of the car. I don't release an opinion about this..
4 - No difference, but here the collectors prefers cars that stay only here in Italy, due to historic and heritage value.
5 - Yes, here on alfabb you can find a lot of excellent example about that, you can also install a TS engine, check alfaholics site.
6 - Yes, on the "libretto" you can find all about the car, characteristic, registration number, plate number, chassis variation and all past owners. Check the quality of paper for originality.
7 - Yes, you find the past owners in this and if the car is free of legal restriction.

Don't warry about the questions, feel free to ask if you need visual reference.
Diego
Diego -

Ok, we have black plate cars in the U.S. as well, but only in California. Same concept.

Understand on the documentation. I'll have to educate myself.

Looks like my best bet is to look for something other than a black plate 1750/2000. I don't mind an import, and originality, while nice, is not going to make or break a deal for me. FYI - I just sold a 1970 Pontiac GTO that won "Best Concours Restored" out of 93 other concours GTO's competing for the award at the GTO Association Nationals. I'm a bit burned out on spending WAY too much $$$ chasing original parts and then losing my @$$ on the sale...

Thanks!

Scott
 

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Free advice is worth exactly what it costs, so here is some free advice. . .

The first thing you should do when you get to Naples is call Diego and take him to lunch! I say this because the best first step to take when buying a collector car is to get acquainted with its community. The best way to find/buy a car is "within the community".

This works both ways: the seller, an enthusiast, doesn't want to expose himself or his car to the usual retail-car-seller-buyer process, preferring to sell to other enthusiasts in a more informal arrangement. The person buying within the community essentially has the same advantages. You're buying from someone who knows and loves the kind of car you're trying to buy. These kinds sales take place among friends and enthusiasts. That's a big advantage.

Before you start actively looking for a car, spend some time learning all you can about GTV's. The BB is a great resource for learning as there is a wealth of information here. Do be afraid to ask questions.

Once you're settled and are comfortable looking around, find someone who owns a GTV and ask to take a demonstration drive. A short drive in one will give you a lot of information you wouldn't otherwise have.

Another way of finding a good GTV is to visit the shops that work on old Alfas. These are not going to be the new car dealers who generally no net to nothing about old Alfas. These old Alfa shops are usually run by enthusiasts who will have the kind of connections to people who have GTV's that they might want to sell.

When you find a car, make sure to check it out thoroughly! If you can do this yourself---fine. But if you can't, by all means take it to someone who has an intimate knowledge of old Alfa and pay them to do a comprehensive inspection.

Finally, the best advice I can give is this: always buy the best car you can find. There are no good deals. Everyone who owns these cars knows how much they're worth, so trying to find the "little old lady who doesn't know what she has" is pretty much a fantasy in this day and age. You'll save yourself a lot of headaches by paying top price for a great car.

Good luck and keep us posted . . .
Thanks for the detailed response.

Yes, I'm familiar with how the vintage car community works. Definitely want to get my foot in the door, and I'd be glad to buy Diego a pizza and the adult beverage of his choice!

I will be at a bit of a disadvantage with the car community due to a language barrier. I speak some French, Spanish, and took 3 semesters of Latin in college, but I'm rusty on all three. Won't have much time to study Italian before I arrive.

Understand on buying the best car for the $$$. I've learned that lesson the hard way before. Most painful lesson was buying a 1973 45' Hatteras sportfishing yacht instead of a nicer and newer 33' or 35' Bertram.

I'm capable of inspecting a car myself, and usually spend quite a bit of time doing so. I won't buy something unless I have it up on jack stands, spend time checking numbers/originality, and a detailed inspection for collision damage and rust. I've seen a few of the resto threads here, so am familiar with some of the problem areas. Will certainly do some more research before I hit the ground.

Thanks!

Scott
 

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I will be at a bit of a disadvantage with the car community due to a language barrier. I speak some French, Spanish, and took 3 semesters of Latin in college, but I'm rusty on all three. Won't have much time to study Italian before I arrive.

Well, Italy isn't the only place to look for good Alfas. You might consider this one at my friends at Italclassic in Alicante, Spain. This is a quite nice car at a very good price---especially so considering everything that was done to it. Ben and John are originally from Holland and, being Nederlanders, speak several languages, including English and, of course, Spanish. In addition to this car, they'll most likely have others for sale too. If it were me, I'd buy this one in a minute.

1969 Alfa Romeo 1300 GT Junior/GTA Replica - Classic Alfa Romeo spare parts

Venta y Restauración de Coches Clásicos Alfa Romeo
 

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Free advice is worth exactly what it costs, so here is some free advice. . .

The first thing you should do when you get to Naples is call Diego and take him to lunch! I say this because the best first step to take when buying a collector car is to get acquainted with its community. The best way to find/buy a car is "within the community".
---
Once you're settled and are comfortable looking around, find someone who owns a GTV and ask to take a demonstration drive. A short drive in one will give you a lot of information you wouldn't otherwise have.

Another way of finding a good GTV is to visit the shops that work on old Alfas. These are not going to be the new car dealers who generally no net to nothing about old Alfas. These old Alfa shops are usually run by enthusiasts who will have the kind of connections to people who have GTV's that they might want to sell.
:smile2: thanks for lunch advice ehehehhe
I will be happy to help any Alfa enthusiast, anybody can ask my phone number for an help about Alfa and vintage cars, here in my zone and all Italy too.

I'll be in Europe until mid-May, looking for a Stepnose and Giulia Super/Biscione. Starting in The Netherlands, then to Germany and ending in Italy. Eurail pass in-hand. Tommy cars is one stop (in Italy), where there is a recently restored Stepnose in, I hope, Alfa blue. I'm not opposed to buying two cars if the right opportunities come along. The import paperwork will be there no matter what the quantity.

I want something that is a well restored, high-quality driver. Originality, for me, is a trade-off for performance [mods], as I plan to drive as was intended. If it has a 1300 engine, it will eventually have a 1600 or 1750 under my ownership. While my Western NY region lacks a specialist shop, the various suppliers and depth of experience available on this board makes ownership doable.

I'll end my trip in Rome, but Naples is just a quick hop, and worth the coal-fired pizza alone.
SnugBaffalo, the advice is for you too, Naples is near Rome, just write your specific need and I can help you to to find the best pizza and car.

Thanks for the detailed response.
Yes, I'm familiar with how the vintage car community works. Definitely want to get my foot in the door, and I'd be glad to buy Diego a pizza and the adult beverage of his choice!
-----
I will be at a bit of a disadvantage with the car community due to a language barrier. I speak some French, Spanish, and took 3 semesters of Latin in college, but I'm rusty on all three. Won't have much time to study Italian before I arrive.
-----
Scott
ahhaha adult beverage... If you will came here you are a guest, don't worry about the right restaurant and wine :wink2:
And I think the language is not a barrier, a lot of friends speak english and also technical english, maybe someone rusty but here we say that speaking is like oil for language.

Well, Italy isn't the only place to look for good Alfas. You might consider this one at my friends at Italclassic in Alicante, Spain. This is a quite nice car at a very good price---especially so considering everything that was done to it. Ben and John are originally from Holland and, being Nederlanders, speak several languages, including English and, of course, Spanish. In addition to this car, they'll most likely have others for sale too. If it were me, I'd buy this one in a minute.

1969 Alfa Romeo 1300 GT Junior/GTA Replica - Classic Alfa Romeo spare parts

Venta y Restauración de Coches Clásicos Alfa Romeo
And yes, is not the only place, for example from some years to now, many cars are come from Germany due to big request.
So, just write here your need, we can transform this thread in a little guide to buy a car here in Italy :)
 

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Discussion Starter #11
Well, Italy isn't the only place to look for good Alfas. You might consider this one at my friends at Italclassic in Alicante, Spain. This is a quite nice car at a very good price---especially so considering everything that was done to it. Ben and John are originally from Holland and, being Nederlanders, speak several languages, including English and, of course, Spanish. In addition to this car, they'll most likely have others for sale too. If it were me, I'd buy this one in a minute.

1969 Alfa Romeo 1300 GT Junior/GTA Replica - Classic Alfa Romeo spare parts

Venta y Restauración de Coches Clásicos Alfa Romeo
Love the car; this is right up my alley. Good excuse for a road trip, too! A little early for me to pull the trigger on something, but I'm watching it.

Just to make sure I have this straight -- originally it's a 1969 1300 GT Junior. From there, a 1600 engine was added, along with GTA bits. One thing I don't understand -- what is the GTA roofline that this car apparently has? Does the GTA have a different roof profile than the GTV or GTJ?

Thanks,

Scott
 

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Discussion Starter #12
ahhaha adult beverage... If you will came here you are a guest, don't worry about the right restaurant and wine :wink2:
And I think the language is not a barrier, a lot of friends speak english and also technical english, maybe someone rusty but here we say that speaking is like oil for language.
Diego -

Sounds good. I will send you a private message.

Thanks,

Scott
 

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The GTA has the exact shape of a Sprint GT, but all the exterior panels would be aluminum including the roof (cue: a string of rivets in the rain channels). I think the "roof lining" to which the seller refers is the headliner which would be simpler on a GTA.
 

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Discussion Starter #14
The GTA has the exact shape of a Sprint GT, but all the exterior panels would be aluminum including the roof (cue: a string of rivets in the rain channels). I think the "roof lining" to which the seller refers is the headliner which would be simpler on a GTA.
Thanks for the info.

Scott
 

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Discussion Starter #15
Ok, so I'm getting close to getting to Italy. I'll be there in about 3 weeks.

Here are a few Alfa's in Campania (that's the province that Naples is in) -

1969 GT Junior 1300, 16,000 euro's ($18,120 USD). Linky - ALFA ROMEO GT junior scalino 69 Auto usata - In vendita Salerno

Translated (somewhat) to English: "GT step of the 1969 original. Carburetors [re]placed 6 months ago. 1300 cc. Documents and original plates , ASI. VIEWING BY APPOINTMENT. We do not need speculators. I sell to [fund] another project."

Looks like a nice car.
 

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ALFA ROMEO GT - 1970 model (?) 15,000 euros

Translated ad: "Alfa romeo gt junior in 1300 , one owner, good condition"

Link - ALFA ROMEO GT - Anni 70 Auto usata - In vendita Salerno

One owner car would be nice. Needs some better pictures, including one of under the hood.
 

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Discussion Starter #17
1965 GT (not sure what engine) - 18,000 euros, or a tad over $20,000 USD.

Translated ad, "Cars registered in 1965 , sole owner (my father ) that sells in Naples where he is. The price has made ​​the magazine "crank". The car is in excellent condition, I told him to send me also photos of the engine compartment and interior that trust to publish as soon as possible. Alpha was ritargata 80s because at that time there was a city ordinance on the number plate and..."

Link - ALFA ROMEO GT - Anni 60 Auto usata - In vendita Napoli

Pictures are lousy. Ad has pictures/pdf's of a lot of documents, but I have no idea what they are. Again, a real one owner car would be very nice.
 

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Discussion Starter #18
1970 (?) GT 1300, 8,000 euros

Translated ad - "Complete and all working can face any distance engine and gearbox 2000 front 1750. The vehicle will be original , as the title the front engine and gearbox 2000 rimango.vendita them without obligation to sell because I have two more in 1750 , email address telephone as soon as possible and will contact I'm very busy at work , I have also certificate ASI price and photos are real not hesitate are at your disposal for any information thanks in advance."

Not quite sure on the translation, but looks like it's been fitted with either a 1750 or a 2 liter engine and a transmission from a 1750 or 2000 cc car.

At 8,000 euros, the price sounds good, but maybe a bit under market value unless it's rusty/has collision damage.

Scott

Link - ALFA ROMEO GT junior 1.3 - Anni 70 Auto usata - In vendita Napoli
 

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Discussion Starter #19
1971 GT 1300? 8,000 euros. I think this is a different car for sale from the same guy as the ad immediately above.

Translated ad, "Can tackle any distance send me email with telephone number and I will contact you as soon as possible photo and real price engine and gearbox 2000 years 71 plates and original documents Nos negotiable price I spent a lot more to fix it , who is responsible for QST type of car knows, not exchange anything with possibility of test drive and if you come with your mechanic makes me even more piacere. i circles the steering wheel and front seats. Not included in the price the vehicle will be made original gt junior 1.3 otherwise the price changes for any application are available with advance."

Link - ALFA ROMEO GT - Anni 70 Auto usata - In vendita Napoli

Anyone have any thoughts? Diego - you out there? Can I possibly get a little help on some of the translation?

Thanks,

Scott
 

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Discussion Starter #20
I'm not terribly interested in a car that's been restored. In my price range, I would end up with an amateur restoration or an older restoration. Amateur restorations always have some (not so) nice surprises.

I am really not that concerned with the engine, either. I plan to build a strong 2 liter engine, so if it has a 1300, that's no big deal.

Same with brakes and suspension -- I'll likely upgrade with parts from Alfaholics.

Main concern is getting a car that isn't rusty and doesn't have significant collision damage. I'm pretty good at finding both, and would crawl under a car and give it a very good once-over, of course.

A one or two owner car would be great, especially if it has original paint and hasn't been extensively modified.

Scott
 
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