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swede said:
i have never liked racing for a few reasons. one is that i find the constant talking extremely annoying, the sound from the cars drives me straight up a wall and it goes on and on and on. i mean, can't they make the track shorter or something??

my husband is a serious nascar fan and has been trying so hard to get me interested in it. i feel so bad that we can't both enjoy it together. i even sat and watched one once with him, but nothing. i just don't get what all the excitement is about. a bunch of noisy cars going round and round for hours....as far as i am concerned it ranks right up there with golf....boring. and at least golf isn't loud.

i guess the reason i came here in the first place was because i was actually doing a search for how to get a woman interested in racing and came up with nothing. it wasn't until i typed in "people who don't like nascar" that i found this site. i want to understand it so bad. i want to be excited about it like other women, but i am getting nowhere.

if anyone here has any ideas on how to make me see it for something more exciting and less annoying than i see it, please help me out. my husband will be extremely thankful. :)
What straight woman wouldn't appreciate the likes of Jeff Gordon, Jimmie Johnson, Ryan Newman or Kasey Kane? The same sexist reason I enjoy the SI swimsuit issue - Its the sunglasses.
 

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I think NASCAR sux. Road racing is the way to go. check out my pix of Sebring. Sebring is in the same league as Le Mans and the 24 hours of Daytona. Nascar is the macdonalds of racing, pandering to the lowest race fans. Only reason i would go is to hunt for mullets. I mean really, you want to see a ford taurus decked in advertising?
and another thing; the whole show is patently racist from top to bottom. theres no women drivers, no black drivers, no foreign drivers. why dont they just have a Klan meeting instead? Ill keep my harsher comments to myself.
 

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Carlo,
Your post has a major error in it. Sebring is 20,000 steps above the Daytona 24 hours. Daytona is run by the France family which spawned the GrandAm series (boring fabcars) which is stupid compared to ALMS.
 

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Apex,

I stand corrected. The one thing I do respect about the 24 hours race, as I do with the others is the endurance and night aspects of the racing. Sure nascar has two night races, but they are under the lights, it might as well be daytime. There are large portions of Sebring raceway that are unlit. Drivers run by their headlights there.

And to the Lady who wants to support her husbands' NASCAR problem; Dont.
Love him for his other attributes, and even support him when he wants to go. but dont torture yourself. You will only get resentful and upset and neither of you wants that.
 

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conchgtv said:
the whole show is patently racist from top to bottom. theres no women drivers, no black drivers, no foreign drivers. why dont they just have a Klan meeting instead?
Harsher comments to yourself? My gosh, they get harsher? If you are going to trash Nascar as racist, you need to continue on and include most forms of motor racing. I don't follow Formula One very close anymore, but are you telling me Road Racing is filled with women and minorities?

Even if I prefer Road Racing, all racing is good. It gets people interested in cars (even a Taurus) who wouldn't be otherwise.

Erik
 

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Generic Wood,

Road racing in fact does have women drivers and "minorities" if thats what you call people from other countries. Some of carts' most famous drivers are mexican, italian, south african etc though i know its not road racing, cart is a popular form of racing in america thats not racist. Rally road racing also has people of all kinds in it as does Formula one and historic sports car racing. Theres women pro road bikers and the list goes on.
 

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Hey RTBRACER, I have to disagree with you completely. F1 is driver skill and car setup which is the reason it is the Premier racing series in the world. Look what happened to Ruebens when Schumi broke his leg a few seasons back. There was no input for car setup for the team and he fell to the back of the grid for qualifying when Michael was missing.

It's far easier to get a car to go quickly in a straight line, than around bends. Then to set gear, suspension, diff ratios, LSD, etc. settings at optimum levels for each bend on the track makes the difference between a mutiple world champion and a multiple runner up in the same car.

There is a lot to be said for racing where there is a lot of overtaking and multiple lead changes, but that's all Nascar has going for it.

Go straight and turn left, repeat 4 times. Duh!
 

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GreyGTV6 said:
Hey RTBRACER, I have to disagree with you completely. F1 is driver skill and car setup which is the reason it is the Premier racing series in the world. Look what happened to Ruebens when Schumi broke his leg a few seasons back. There was no input for car setup for the team and he fell to the back of the grid for qualifying when Michael was missing.

Actually it was Irvine. And Ferrari made sure he was at the back because they didn't want him to look better than Schumacher. Also, when an F1 car is slow, they rebuild the car. When a Champ Car is slow, it's setup devolopment 101.

Champ Cars > Formula 1.
 

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italcarguy said:
This guy was lost. I saw him in line to get into the track Sunday morning.

Ferrari and NASCAR....um, no
No he's not lost. His driver must have raced the Daytona 24 and now he thinks it's the worlds newest and coolest discovery that race cars can turn right too! Took this @ the 24 last month:




(in case anyone's interested, a few of my Daytona 24 pics: http://www.clubwrx.net/forums/showthread.php?t=94546)

edit: oh, F1 has become so rigged and boring that its impossible to watch. I've been to 14 GPs and used to put the "fanatic" in "fan". But the last few seasons have been dead boring and Bernie's blatant favoritism towards Ferrari just makes me sick. Nigel Roebuck's column in Autosport 2 weeks ago was pretty clear on what he thought Enzo Ferrari's take on the current situation would be (it'd make him sick too). I used to religiously watch every race for as long as the whole season has been on TV in the US. But last year I only watched 3 or 4 races and still felt my time was wasted (wish I'd seen Spa, though). I doubt I'll watch a single race this year. Don't watch much NASCAR, but the Daytona 500 was as excellent race with the cream of NASCAR drivers battling it out for the win. MotoGP and WRC are my things these days. Sportscars too (see pics link above for my feelings on ALMS vs. GrandAm). Champ car sure puts on a heck of a show here in Denver.

C
 

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Hit an Apex said:
Actually it was Irvine. And Ferrari made sure he was at the back because they didn't want him to look better than Schumacher. Also, when an F1 car is slow, they rebuild the car. When a Champ Car is slow, it's setup devolopment 101.

Champ Cars > Formula 1.
OK, you're right about Irvine and not Reubens, and I have no wish to start a slanging match here. This board is above that type of thing. You are entitled to support whomever you want, and prefer whichever form of motor sport you want. But the fact is F1 is international and Chump is not. The drivers of either form are top of their profession and best at what they do. Schumi took Beneton to the top and when Ferrari were in the doldrums he picked them up and has kept them at the top. It's a full team sport, but if the driver cannot input back to the team and engineers the car goes nowhere. Look at all the advice that the experienced guys on this board give regarding setup, tyres and other tips on how to go a bit quicker.

Ferrari would never deliberately drop Irvine to mid-pack simply to make Michael look good. He has driven the wheels off any team mate he has had.

But to get a car to go quickly under all circumstances like F1 is a lot harder than going straight and turning left. You watch what you want, and I will watch what I want. End of discussion.
 

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GreyGTV6 said:
Hey RTBRACER, I have to disagree with you completely. F1 is driver skill and car setup which is the reason it is the Premier racing series in the world. Look what happened to Ruebens when Schumi broke his leg a few seasons back. There was no input for car setup for the team and he fell to the back of the grid for qualifying when Michael was missing.

It's far easier to get a car to go quickly in a straight line, than around bends. Then to set gear, suspension, diff ratios, LSD, etc. settings at optimum levels for each bend on the track makes the difference between a mutiple world champion and a multiple runner up in the same car.

There is a lot to be said for racing where there is a lot of overtaking and multiple lead changes, but that's all Nascar has going for it.

Go straight and turn left, repeat 4 times. Duh!
In Formula 1, all the cars are different, it is the amount of research and time spent creating the car design, rather than every car being the same. In Nascar, the cars all wear the same motors, same aerodynamic packages, and the same suspensions. You are right about one thing, the driver has very little to do with the guy who wins and the guy who finishes last. However, the car setup, the current pit strategy is what wins the race. If anything I would with that Nascar would give the chapion trophy to the crew chief rather than the driver.

In Formula 1, every car is different, so car setup has very little to do with it, but how advanced the car is does have everything to do with it. The driver is very important in coming up with what needs to get developed and learning to reign that power and finess it into every corner. Michael Schumacher helps with the development of the car. He is also more capable to control it. Road course racing requires very good drivers in very good cars. Take a look at ALMS about 2 years ago with Prodrive Ferrari and the Corvette. The corvette was 8 mph off the Ferrari in the sebring straight. THEY LOST. I still think that some of the drivers corvette and the ferrari were very equal. However, the car won the race, not the drivers, not the strategy, not the "set-up." It was simply that the ferrari was more aerodynamic and had more horsepower, while the corvette had torque. The corvette would kill coming out of a corner, and get killed in the following straightaway.

Now when I think of "set-up" I refer to it as suspension and aerodynamic set-up for a particular track. This has very little realm in formula 1. If it did you could say that Michael Schumacher is just a god of knowing what set-up to have. I doubt that very much. It is simply plain that his car seems to have more power, more brakes, and more suspension than a renault, or a minardi, or even the bmw or mclarens. As for strategy of pitting. THEY DON'T GET TIRES ANYMORE. The same set you get drive on for qualifying is the same as the ones you go on the whole race for. What strategy is there anymore. When to put gas in? When to start pushing on the tires for more speed? Thats it, they got rid of the old strategy of 2 or 3 or 4 stops in a race. Now it is almost useless to think strategy is gonna be involved.

Now if you look at last weekend's races at California speedway. The busch race and the cup race was won by pit strategy. In the busch race, the leader with 6 to go ran out of gas, leaving the lead to the guy who decided to come in for only 2 tires not 4 and a full tank of gas. Meanwhile the next guy to take 4 was back in 5th. Interesting strategy ending. The same is true for the cup race. the top 2 cars didn't pit with 30 to go. They had both pit 6 green laps previously to the pits of the next 25 cars. So when it went green, they broke away to a 4 second lead. It took 30 laps for the nearest quickest by set-up 4 tire stop car to come up to 2nd and nearly one, but it wasn't enough. Take a look at the last 50 laps of the races, it was won due to strategy.

Just a thought, I didn't say I like Nascar, I don't Road Racing is the way to go. However, you can't overlook the brilliance of the crew chiefs.

Richard
 

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Richard I agree with a lot of what you have to say, and I must admit I seldom watch Nascar or other oval racing. But to minimize the influence a driver has on car development is over looking a huge part of racing. Granted, if a car is quicker over the course of a lap then a mediocre driver will beat an excellent one.

But I've read many reports and a lot of mags. The engineers and team appreciate it when the driver lets them know what the car is doing and can even input suggestions. The engineers cannot feel the car the way the driver can, and the driver cannot fix it the way the team can. There have been champions who can and cannot give feedback, but by far the majority of champions can. Even the weekend racer practices, goes back to the pits and makes changes as he feels best.

But F1 has become boring. You cannot argue that fact. And like I said Champ and Nascar have lead swops and overtaking. This fact is not lost on Bernie and co. but F1 need Ferrari in the sport to attact the audience and continue making the millions they do. And they are cut a lot more slack than any other team would get. This also applies to other forms of racing where Ferrari are a big drawcard.

No doubt the biggest budgets normally win races. And I agree 100% that the team should be on the podium with the driver.
 

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"In Formula 1, every car is different, so car setup has very little to do with it.....Now when I think of "set-up" I refer to it as suspension and aerodynamic set-up for a particular track. This has very little realm in formula 1.....THEY DON'T GET TIRES ANYMORE".

You need to check your facts. F1 teams use different setups for each track. The myriad changes include: spring & damper rates, aero packages, ride height, cooling systems, gearboxes and v important - software settings.

As for tyres, well I must confess I watched a lot less last season than previous ones, but I don't recall that they don't get tyres any more.

My vote for best motorsport to watch live would have to be ALMS. Really blows me away. Although I've not been to Goodwood yet...
 

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Road racing relies "very little" on set-up??????

"Road racing has very little to do with set-up..."

I'd really have to disagree with that. Even Kart racing relies VERY heavily on set-up... and Karts are about the simplest things out there. I don't know how it is with VIntage racing... but most of the time people worry too much about small gains in horse power when there is much more to be gained if your set-up is spot on. (That's not just my H.O.) Look at how well Renault (sp?) was able to hang in there in 2003 & "04" when they were so down on power... that car handled incredibly well.
 

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DaveH said:
You need to check your facts. F1 teams use different setups for each track. The myriad changes include: spring & damper rates, aero packages, ride height, cooling systems, gearboxes and v important - software settings.

As for tyres, well I must confess I watched a lot less last season than previous ones, but I don't recall that they don't get tyres any more.
Well look at it this way. If you are headed to Indianapolis no matter which car you drive, you set it up for minimal downforce and hard springs and shocks due to tight cornering. This is a broad stroke of the set-up that every team does before going to a track. My only point is that no matter what the team is, set-up is not a huge difference between winning and second. At least for Ferrari. It seemed that their cars were either WAY IN FRONT or the strategy hadn't played itself out yet. THEY TOOK AWAY THE STRATEGY THIS YEAR. As of Melbourne in what 4 days, you are only allowed to have 2 sets of tires for the extent of the weekend. one set is for practice, while the other set is for qualifying and the race. THIS is why strategy is GONE.



Now as for Sprintn
I'd really have to disagree with that. Even Kart racing relies VERY heavily on set-up... and Karts are about the simplest things out there. I don't know how it is with VIntage racing... but most of the time people worry too much about small gains in horse power when there is much more to be gained if your set-up is spot on. (That's not just my H.O.) Look at how well Renault (sp?) was able to hang in there in 2003 & "04" when they were so down on power... that car handled incredibly well.
That is absolutely true for Spec racing where everyone is running the same stuff. Also known as: Karting, Nascar, IRL, Grand-am...etc.
This is not applicable to Formula 1. This has alot to do with who has the BEST designed car for that year. Last year it seemed like FERRARI had the best of everything, while BAR seemed to have the best motor, renault had the best handling car, the mclaren couldn't last a weekend, the williams....etc. Throughout the year, it didn't seem to matter how much camber someone put into their cars.

This isn't true in Nascar.
When asked why he couldn't lead many laps until the end of the Daytona 500 Dale Earnhardt Jr. responded that the car wasn't handling through the corners and couldn't be taken flat out through the corners without dragging the brakes. There were 42 other cars out there, some of them didn't complain. Such to the likes of Tony Stewart, who led 106 out of the 200 laps in the race. He said the car would just go through the corner flat out. This was a true admission of the importance of set-up in their circuit. The same could be said about Karting, Grand-am, spec-miata.....etc.

I am not making any arguement that set-up doesn't count in road course racing. The only way I made my GTV get from a 1:37 at willow to a 1:33 was a set of shocks and paying attention to the ride height, and alignment. My only arguement is that it doesn't have high priority in the Formula 1 Series, where everyone knows how to dial their cars into the track, but some cars still are just quicker at the edge.

thanks,
Richard
 

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DaveH said:
[I
My vote for best motorsport to watch live would have to be ALMS. Really blows me away. Although I've not been to Goodwood yet...
I too am a fan of ALMS.
NASCAR needs to join the 21st century. The cars they run are obsolete, they all look the same except for the advertising on the cars, & the races get very boring. All except the road races, they are not bad.
It would be good if the speed channel would show more european road racing,
since there isn't much here in the USA, & less NASCAR but as long as NASCAR is paying most of the bills they will get most of the air time! That is probably like wishing for a new Alfa to be sold in the USA! :)
 
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