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Discussion Starter #1
Hi all,

My red alfa all of a sudden for no reason (as I know) just keep dying at low rpms. It all happened today mornin while I am driving it to my carpool parkin lot. I started off from house, started fine as it does all the time and I kept goin after a couple of miles, I see whenever I started to shift gears it jumps and goes (this is I think when I change gears, the rpms go down and since we press gas it kept goin). But since, it would be like stop and go traffic in the mornin, I have to slow down after a while, here comes the problem, the engine just dies :confused:. Since my parking lot is not much far, I managed to drive it by keeping it at high rpms and in low gear (2nd) and using hand brake and main brake accordingly.

Battery is fine. Oil level is good. Enough gas is in the tank. It starts fine and then slowly falls down and dies unless I keep giving it gas.

Whts goin onnn here.... any help would be greatly appreciated???

-Pavan.
 

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Throttle switch or idle control valve (stabilizer?)

Hi Pavan,

Just my thought on this...I've had this issue in my non-Alfa cars, and it seems to be tied to a fault in the throttle position switch or idle control valve.

I could be way off, but it might be worth looking at whether that is causing it.

I've had issues with stalling, as well as an idle that was too high in my Peugeot 405 Mi16s, and this was cured by replacing one of both of these two components.

Good luck...I'm sure you'll get other advice on it!

Best,
Paul H.
'91 164 S :D
'89 and '91 Peugeot 405 Mi16 :cool:
'03 Saab 9-5 Aero wagon
'06 Saab 9-3 Aero convertible
 

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Check for air leak caused by loose hose from idle actuator or oil seperator to big black corragated intake hose. Also check for loose clamps, cracked intake hose. If air cleamer and AFM moving around and cracked big hose check for broken rubber mounts on lower air cleaner box.

Check idle actuator mounting rubber grommet in intake, too.

Something opening up giving you false air I think. If nothing shows up visually move AFM and hose up and down with engine idling as see if engine wants to die on you.
 

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Discussion Starter #4
Check for air leak caused by loose hose from idle actuator or oil seperator to big black corragated intake hose. Also check for loose clamps, cracked intake hose. If air cleamer and AFM moving around and cracked big hose check for broken rubber mounts on lower air cleaner box.

Check idle actuator mounting rubber grommet in intake, too.

Something opening up giving you false air I think. If nothing shows up visually move AFM and hose up and down with engine idling as see if engine wants to die on you.
Thanks Steve, Maybe these two points will help in diagnosing even more... Here is what Brian told me while buyin the car.

" There is a small oil leak coming from the oil pump drive gear cover. I suspect this cover needs to be tightened down. The engine need to be tilted forward to do this


The hose from the oil recovery tank to the oil pump drive gear cover need to be replaced. The hose split at the clamp. it was long enough to cut the bad section off and reuse. The engine need to be tilted forward to do this. "

Do you think the second point is having something to do...

-Pavan.
 

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Sounds just like the air leak in my S a few months ago. Changed the air filter and the hose from AFM to plenum became loose. On the freeway it was fine then at idle and in stop and go it cut out. Restarted it pulled into lot and it cut out again. Checked air hoses and a big 1/2" gap where hose came loose from plenum. Tightened it up and have been golden ever since.
 

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Discussion Starter #6 (Edited)
Will check all the hoses today evening, since I have to join my carpool to work, I didnt have time to look those.

-Pavan
 

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Thanks Steve, Maybe these two points will help in diagnosing even more... Here is what Brian told me while buyin the car.

" There is a small oil leak coming from the oil pump drive gear cover. I suspect this cover needs to be tightened down. The engine need to be tilted forward to do this


The hose from the oil recovery tank to the oil pump drive gear cover need to be replaced. The hose split at the clamp. it was long enough to cut the bad section off and reuse. The engine need to be tilted forward to do this. "

Do you think the second point is having something to do...

-Pavan.
If small hose is cracked yes you will get oil leak and yes you can get a bit of false air but I doubt enough to be causing your problem.

Check out AFM corragated big black hose and hoses going to it for problem. Also add hose from oil seperator to rear valve cover near upper motor (dog bone) to your list of things to check.
 

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Discussion Starter #8 (Edited)
Ok... I checked all the hoses.. everything is tight except the clamp that connects the hose to oil vapor receiver. But here is wht I observed... I disconnected the MAF electrical connector and the engine revs steadily at above 1000rpms, but as soon as I connect the MAF connector the engine idle gets rough and while cruising like this, as soon as you engage clutch, the rpms races to zero. Again I disconnect it, the idle goes to steady above 1000rpms.

Maybe I will try switchin the mafs from the green one and see if it is a faulty MAF sensor...:confused::confused:

-Pavan
 

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If you're talking about the AFM, your green 164L and red 164Q do not use the same AFM.
 

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Discussion Starter #10 (Edited)
If you're talking about the AFM, your green 164L and red 164Q do not use the same AFM.
hmm then there ya go... then I can't swap them to test...:mad:. yeh its AFM, we call it as MAF ;) on our svx n/w. Usually what we see is, the engine runs bad without AFM, but here it is runnin fine without AFM connected.:confused::confused:

-Pavan
 

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Discussion Starter #11
Sounds just like the air leak in my S a few months ago. Changed the air filter and the hose from AFM to plenum became loose. On the freeway it was fine then at idle and in stop and go it cut out. Restarted it pulled into lot and it cut out again. Checked air hoses and a big 1/2" gap where hose came loose from plenum. Tightened it up and have bee n golden ever since.
Ok... I am not understanding Alfabb's technical terms :). Do you mean the hose from AFM to idle speed controller?? wht do ya mean by plenum?? but I have checked all the hoses and everything seems fine except the hose hat goes into oil vapors receiver. Also is there any easy way to remove those clamps on the hoses, they seem not usual clamps with screws, they look like something press type....huh... Alfa!!!!

-Pavan
 

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Ok... I am not understanding Alfabb's technical terms :). Do you mean the hose from AFM to idle speed controller?? wht do ya mean by plenum?? but I have checked all the hoses and everything seems fine except the hose hat goes into oil vapors receiver. Also is there any easy way to remove those clamps on the hoses, they seem not usual clamps with screws, they look like something press type....huh... Alfa!!!!

-Pavan
Plenum is aluminum intake with 24v or 12v on it. Which car are you talking about? Is red one 24v as Sean states? AFMs not interchangeable.

Which hose to oil cannister has loose clamp - small drain hose? You need correct clamp pliers to unlock then. I use incorrect end cutter ones to unlock them and then replace them with screw clamp if I can't relock them with end cutters.

Point of info: 164B/L/S, LS/Q use AFM whereas Q4 uses MAS aka MAF and B/L AFM same, S different as 24v LS/Q are different also from 12v models.
 

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Discussion Starter #13
Plenum is aluminum intake with 24v or 12v on it. Which car are you talking about? Is red one 24v as Sean states? AFMs not interchangeable.

Which hose to oil cannister has loose clamp - small drain hose? You need correct clamp pliers to unlock then. I use incorrect end cutter ones to unlock them and then replace them with screw clamp if I can't relock them with end cutters.

Point of info: 164B/L/S, LS/Q use AFM whereas Q4 uses MAS aka MAF and B/L AFM same, S different as 24v LS/Q are different also from 12v models.
Yeh, the problem is with the 95 24v engine. I thought of trying 12v AFM, but anyway it seems I cant use it. Do ya think it is indeed bad AFM, since idle goes bad as soon as I connect the AFM connector ?? its the hose that comes from AFM to oil receiver cannister.

-Pavan
 

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Did you check to see if the ECU was throwing any codes?
 

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Discussion Starter #15
Did you check to see if the ECU was throwing any codes?
how can I check the codes on 95?? we have a test button to the side of steering column on 12v. But there isn't such kind of button on 24v cars. Do they move it to another palce??

-Pavan
 

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I believe you turn the ignition on and pump the gas pedal to the floor 5 times or something like that, then it flashes a code from the check engine light
 

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Discussion Starter #17
I believe you turn the ignition on and pump the gas pedal to the floor 5 times or something like that, then it flashes a code from the check engine light
That will be the first thing 'm gonna do tommorow mornin...

-Pavan
 

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Yeh, the problem is with the 95 24v engine. I thought of trying 12v AFM, but anyway it seems I cant use it. Do ya think it is indeed bad AFM, since idle goes bad as soon as I connect the AFM connector ?? its the hose that comes from AFM to oil receiver cannister.

-Pavan
Do this test and see if you get any codes, turn on key push accel pedal 5 times and record CEL flashes for codes if any in memory.

http://www.digest.net/alfa/FAQ/164/94motron.htm

If AFM comes up as a code in memory, check Bosch connector to it for bad female pins broken or unlocked and push back in connector.
 

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Discussion Starter #19 (Edited)
Hmm... I dont know wht happened but now its back on track.. here is wht I did, removed all the contacts around AFM and throttle body, cleaned them and reinstalled them. Cleaned all the hoses and reinstalled them. Checked the fault code... 1-4444-1, unplugged the battery and reinstalled it. Started car for more than 15 times and checked the fault code again after a trail run of 2miles and its still showing 1-4444-1. but, now its running fine. Hope it wont show up again :rolleyes:.

Thanks for all ur prompt responses... I really need this car running, since both my sister's and her husband's car are rear-ended with in a gap of a month, now they are using my cars (svx and 164L) while I am using red one from a week.

-Pavan
 

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I know how you feel, I will be fielding an all euro driving fleet this monday. The Nissan truck is leaving and the Peugeot is coming to stay with me. Should be interesting, lets just say I am planning how to get to work via bicycle if need be lol!
 
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