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Discussion Starter #1
Hi,

So, I have this 86 model spider. In about a year it is a veteran car (30 years and older are officially veterans in Norway). I bought this car in 2009, and I have been on some great road trips with this car, included two major eurotrips. I certainly don`t want to get rid off it!! Is it beautiful? Njaa..

At both sides at the front window I had to remove some "surface rust" some years ago. And a month ago I got some help from a guy to remove some "surface rust" at one side behind the back window (I think its classic for these cars?).

Also close to the front wheel down on the right side, in front of the door, there were some rust. Actually it had broken through the steel!! So, I got help and removed the piece, and welded and repainted that area.

The problem is that it does not have its original color/painting anymore. Apperantly It was red long time ago. That was its original color. Now it is blue-grey. I do not have the color-code. So, they have scanned the color, but its never getting totally perfect if you don`t have the exact code. Maybe 90%. So, its more than possible to view shadow rings at this new painted areas. Which sucks!

Today I made some effort and removed/brushed away some surface rust at the lower outer rear panel around the exhaust mounting end (you know!?). Not much at all in general, but.. at the left side of that rear panel it had broken through the steel (ca. 1,5x 1,5 cm area). Evil rust (corrosion?)!

I just took some primer inside it with some body protection painting/spray, plus off course the color painting. Nothing more, nothing less.

This worries me, but isn`t this an external body part? And probably double sided as well, isnt`t it? Inner and outer rear panel? So, maybe this isnt that bad after all? I`m soon going to place it in its winter garage in Denmark. Hopefully I don`t need to worry about this and don`t need to start thinking about having that part welded before the winter season? Hopefully not..

The good news, as far as I`m concerned, is that there are no more rust (corrosion) on it now. Neither "surface rust" or the real "evil corrosion".

I`m thinking about the evil rust/corrosion now. These thoughts haunts me. I seriously consider to bring it to Poland next year, or 2016 on its anniversary, and getting it repainted and recovered, maybe back to red ("Ferrari red"?).

I`m living very south in Norway, and a full car body painting in Poland costs ca. 15 000 norwegian kroners, which is approximately 2300 USD. Not very far distance from me either. Ca.10 hours trip, included a ferry to Denmark.

So, what are my questions actually? Well, I just wanted to write and hear what you people think about my story, and if you can come up with some tips and thoughts. I`m not a good car painter, I`m not into welding myself etc. I`m better with my visa card, to put it that way (even though I`m not very wealthy- thats why I`m concidering Poland).
 

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Hello rexcharm!

A fascinating story, and no doubt your English is considerably better than my Norwegian!

Your subject line indicates a 1.6 Spider (?). Is that correct? I thought all S3's 2.0.

Regarding a paint job, I've been quoted 3-6k here in the states, but probably a meaningless comparison. Also, I believe the 6k number was "please go away". I've been touching up with rattle cans and find the car looks decent from about 25'. On the road, I go by so fast, folks don't notice anyway.

As many here agree, red is the best, and by some accounts, fastest Alfa color. You are correct to be concerned all your rust issues are in the past. Surely a competent paint shop will ensure that is the case, although they appreciate an opportunity to increase the price when they find more of the dreaded "creeping lightness".

Best wishes in your efforts and I'm sure others have useful advice to add. You have done a diligent search, right?

As a final note, avoid referring to Forum members as "you people". For some, it leaves a bad taste. :)
 

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On a 1986 if the trunk lid (some call it the boot lid) has not been repainted on the underside, there should be a sticker on the underside with the original Alfa paint code. On my 88 quad is is AR550, which is a very red color. There are many Alfa red colors and the 86 would not be AR550 as this was only used in 88 and 89.

Take a look under the trunk lid and see if your original sticker is still there. If not, the original paint color can be rsearched. Someone on this BB can probably find it for you. $2300 USD is a pretty good price for the repaint if it is a good, quality job, I had my 88 quad repainted late in 2013 and the range of price estimates I received ran from $2600 to $4000 USD.

If you can not find the original paint code, I would certainly recommend going with the AR550 as it is very, very RED.
 

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Hi,

So, I have this 86 model spider. In about a year it is a veteran car (30 years and older are officially veterans in Norway). I bought this car in 2009, and I have been on some great road trips with this car, included two major eurotrips. I certainly don`t want to get rid off it!! Is it beautiful? Njaa..

At both sides at the front window I had to remove some "surface rust" some years ago. And a month ago I got some help from a guy to remove some "surface rust" at one side behind the back window (I think its classic for these cars?).

Also close to the front wheel down on the right side, in front of the door, there were some rust. Actually it had broken through the steel!! So, I got help and removed the piece, and welded and repainted that area.

The problem is that it does not have its original color/painting anymore. Apperantly It was red long time ago. That was its original color. Now it is blue-grey. I do not have the color-code. So, they have scanned the color, but its never getting totally perfect if you don`t have the exact code. Maybe 90%. So, its more than possible to view shadow rings at this new painted areas. Which sucks!

Today I made some effort and removed/brushed away some surface rust at the lower outer rear panel around the exhaust mounting end (you know!?). Not much at all in general, but.. at the left side of that rear panel it had broken through the steel (ca. 1,5x 1,5 cm area). Evil rust (corrosion?)!

I just took some primer inside it with some body protection painting/spray, plus off course the color painting. Nothing more, nothing less.

This worries me, but isn`t this an external body part? And probably double sided as well, isnt`t it? Inner and outer rear panel? So, maybe this isnt that bad after all? I`m soon going to place it in its winter garage in Denmark. Hopefully I don`t need to worry about this and don`t need to start thinking about having that part welded before the winter season? Hopefully not..

The good news, as far as I`m concerned, is that there are no more rust (corrosion) on it now. Neither "surface rust" or the real "evil corrosion".

I`m thinking about the evil rust/corrosion now. These thoughts haunts me. I seriously consider to bring it to Poland next year, or 2016 on its anniversary, and getting it repainted and recovered, maybe back to red ("Ferrari red"?).

I`m living very south in Norway, and a full car body painting in Poland costs ca. 15 000 norwegian kroners, which is approximately 2300 USD. Not very far distance from me either. Ca.10 hours trip, included a ferry to Denmark.

So, what are my questions actually? Well, I just wanted to write and hear what you people think about my story, and if you can come up with some tips and thoughts. I`m not a good car painter, I`m not into welding myself etc. I`m better with my visa card, to put it that way (even though I`m not very wealthy- thats why I`m concidering Poland).
i was thinking exactly the same thing as the other guy... your english is superb ... much better than many for whom it is their first language.

as for paint work... there are several catagories of paint job and so the prices are all over the map. but in broad strokes it comes down to what you are trying to achieve.

in the first extreme, if you have a car that needs no repair work , is in original paint and is being painted the same color , you can prep, mask and shoot that car in basecoat clear/ coat pretty easily in eight hours and roughly 400 - 500 $ worth of materials depending on the color. white is the cheapest, red the most expensive by a significant amount.

in the second extreme, where the car is getting restoration grade paint work and a change of color , you are looking at diassembling the entire shell , stripping all the original paint , doing all the fine detail repair work , repainting with a better grade of paint and reassembling , all of which could turn into 200 hours easily ( for a good professional ) as well as lots of small expendable parts plus about a 1000 $ or more of materials.

everything else is in the middle so you have to decide how nice you want it to be and how much money you have to spend. materials aren't cheap anymore so you have to figure absolute cost at a minimum of 400 $ for those. your car has had some previous repair so thats going to have to be reqorked to some reasonable degree... so figure 6 hours . there should be some minimal dissassembly .. bumpers and things and peel the top back and maybe some of the trim... another few hours. a good full prep on a car thats been repainted once will take 8 hours ( assuming nothing horrible is uncovered ) and need to be sealed when its done. so ... in broad strokes lets call it a 3 day job ... 24 man hours at what for poland ? ... 40 $ / hour shop rate ? so a 1000 in labor plus another 500 ? so maybe 1500 base price ? they will add 500 to that for shop overhead so 2000 $ plus they will find some added work as they go so 2200 to 2500 is about what to expect. any less than that and to still get a good job is a good deal, i would think

to change the color properly is an enormous amount of work and will add significantly to the cost. and you have to have a plan in place IF they uncover rust and rot. a bad place will just cover it up and in a year or two it will come thru. a good place will fix it properly but that adds a lot of cost. so... make sure you discuss with them whats going to happen when they get going and then discover rust areas...
 

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Discussion Starter #5
Thanks for nice answers, Stevew and vf31rhill!

Yes, S3`s were produced as 1.6`s as well. But, I`m not sure if these went to the american market!? The S3`s sold in America had a bigger bumper, I think, because of american regulations and law, or something like that. So, maybe all the spiders made for the american marked were 2.0? I certainly don`t know, but I will check in wikipedia later on..

I`ve seen old spiders 1.6`s for sale in America (on the internet), but maybe these were used spiders imported from Europe later on?

Well, prices in America aren`t comparable to the norwegian price level, I guess. Norway could be the most expensive country in the world. I`ve heard like 5000-6000 USD for a full body painting in Norway in these days. At least 4000, if it is a serious registered workshop which pays its taxes.. Poland is extremely cheap (one of the more cheap countries in Europe). But, I guess the paint have, more or less, an international price, and that drags the price a little up, but polish workers salaries are nothing to brag about (unfortunately), which is why many polish come to Norway to work.. So, after all Poland is the country for me to go to if I want the job done as cheap as possible, and at the same time profesionally.

Anyway, I will try to take some pics this weekend and post them here at this thread, and you can see and judge yourself. But I`m right when I`m guessing that the lower rear panel is an external part, and not a part of the body as a whole, and I maybe then don`t need to worry about that little rusty hole?

By the way, the car is silver with a touch of blue. Not blue-grey as I first wrote. That was clumpsy by me..

My trunk lid is painted, but maybe there`s a sticker there with the paint code anyway. I will check. Thanks for the information!! :) I liked your red spider, vf1rhill! Nice color!

When it comes to the phrase "you people", I don`t know why that would leave a bad taste to some. I`m norwegian (english is my 2.language learnt in school and from TV), so I blame it on my old english teachers.. (I certainly want to have a friendly approach) :)

Anyway, AR550 seems like a nice color, and I will post some pictures later on. Probably tomorrow. Thanks! ;)
 

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Thanks, Stevexsm! Thanx for compliments regarding my english. In Norway, like the two other scandinavian countries, plus Holland etc., we have realized that we don`t have a world language and have to adopt to the real world (not all european countries have still realized that- like italians..), so we learn english proparly in school, and we don`t dub movies.. It helps! :)

I`m at work right now, so I will give a more informative answer later on, with the info I have, and some photos.. Thanx!
 

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Thanks for nice answers, Stevew and vf31rhill!

Yes, S3`s were produced as 1.6`s as well. But, I`m not sure if these went to the american market!? The S3`s sold in America had a bigger bumper, I think, because of american regulations and law, or something like that. So, maybe all the spiders made for the american marked were 2.0? I certainly don`t know, but I will check in wikipedia later on..

I`ve seen old spiders 1.6`s for sale in America (on the internet), but maybe these were used spiders imported from Europe later on?

Well, prices in America aren`t comparable to the norwegian price level, I guess. Norway could be the most expensive country in the world. I`ve heard like 5000-6000 USD for a full body painting in Norway in these days. At least 4000, if it is a serious registered workshop which pays its taxes.. Poland is extremely cheap (one of the more cheap countries in Europe). But, I guess the paint have, more or less, an international price, and that drags the price a little up, but polish workers salaries are nothing to brag about (unfortunately), which is why many polish come to Norway to work.. So, after all Poland is the country for me to go to if I want the job done as cheap as possible, and at the same time profesionally.

Anyway, I will try to take some pics this weekend and post them here at this thread, and you can see and judge yourself. But I`m right when I`m guessing that the lower rear panel is an external part, and not a part of the body as a whole, and I maybe then don`t need to worry about that little rusty hole?

By the way, the car is silver with a touch of blue. Not blue-grey as I first wrote. That was clumpsy by me..

My trunk lid is painted, but maybe there`s a sticker there with the paint code anyway. I will check. Thanks for the information!! :) I liked your red spider, vf1rhill! Nice color!

When it comes to the phrase "you people", I don`t know why that would leave a bad taste to some. I`m norwegian (english is my 2.language learnt in school and from TV), so I blame it on my old english teachers.. (I certainly want to have a friendly approach) :)

Anyway, AR550 seems like a nice color, and I will post some pictures later on. Probably tomorrow. Thanks! ;)
i exported some cars to norway and denmark and i remember the new owners saying the import duties were extremely high and that , because of the high tax rates in general , prices were very high for services.

body work and painting is all about labor hours so you have two giant variables... how much does a " labor hour " cost and how many of those to you you want to buy ?

thats why the polish deal isn't so bad. i have friends in england where a lot of highly skilled poles have gone to work and there is nothing wrong with their skills in general at all. but... having said that, if the guys you chose are no good at what they do then it doesn't matter where they come from.

so... a prudent person might take the ferry over there for a weekend and look at the shops and how they are working and some of the work they have produced before your kroners or euros or whatever go up in smoke. there is no downside at all to taking advantage of low labor rates if the quality of the work remains the same.
 

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I actually found the color code under the trunk lid. I checked now. MET A.R. 765. A red type. But, the Paint code of the color I have on the car now is undiscovered. I should have had that code..

Also, I found some rust at the top of the trunk lid now. Near the tailgate and maybe some under the tailgate (?). An area of approx 1,5 x 5 cm. Hopefully it is on the surface. I will post pictures tomorrow in this thread.

The polish workshop I have checked charge 100 kroners (15.61 USD) per labor hour (!). As a comparison a nurse in Norway earns 190-250 kroners per hour (and that`s the basic salary).. So, yes, a lot to save by going to Poland for scandinavians.

You`re right about hight taxes on cars in Norway and Denmark, so it`s expensive to import cars to Norway. At least it is not much to save by importing cars to Norway, beside the fact that you can get a real nice car that way.

But the high prices for service in Norway and Denmark is because of a general high price level and very high salaries. That is reflected in the general price level, also services at workshops.

I guess I will and should remove the tailgate at the lid tomorrow, and start removing the rust (as long as the rust is on the surface only) and repaint that area. As long as the area is under the lid up along the tailgate, I guess it doesn`t matter that I dont have the exact paint code. I have a silver/grey which I intend to use.

Do anyone have some experience with rust under the trunk lid? It`s typical for spiders, isn`t it? :whistling:
 

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I actually found the color code under the trunk lid. I checked now. MET A.R. 765. A red type. But, the Paint code of the color I have on the car now is undiscovered. I should have had that code..

Also, I found some rust at the top of the trunk lid now. Near the tailgate and maybe some under the tailgate (?). An area of approx 1,5 x 5 cm. Hopefully it is on the surface. I will post pictures tomorrow in this thread.

The polish workshop I have checked charge 100 kroners (15.61 USD) per labor hour (!). As a comparison a nurse in Norway earns 190-250 kroners per hour (and that`s the basic salary).. So, yes, a lot to save by going to Poland for scandinavians.

You`re right about hight taxes on cars in Norway and Denmark, so it`s expensive to import cars to Norway. At least it is not much to save by importing cars to Norway, beside the fact that you can get a real nice car that way.

But the high prices for service in Norway and Denmark is because of a general high price level and very high salaries. That is reflected in the general price level, also services at workshops.

I guess I will and should remove the tailgate at the lid tomorrow, and start removing the rust (as long as the rust is on the surface only) and repaint that area. As long as the area is under the lid up along the tailgate, I guess it doesn`t matter that I dont have the exact paint code. I have a silver/grey which I intend to use.

Do anyone have some experience with rust under the trunk lid? It`s typical for spiders, isn`t it? :whistling:
15 $ an hour is what they pay entry level people flipping burgers these days in the states... at that hourly wage i wouldn't be doing ANY body work myself ... drop it off over there and let them have at it . how bad can it be ?

most good auto paint supply shops have optical scanners these days... they polish up a section and scan it and it tells them the nearest factory code or failing that , a formula that they can mix that will match. the trick with it is to buy a pint ( 500cc ) of all three options they give and shoot test sections to see which one is best. best case is its perfect, worst case is that it is really close and for a whole paint job is more than good enough.
 

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A word about paint. In America there are ultra reliable paint companies whose products can be relied on for durability and quality. But they charge a price for this high quality paint. The paint and painting materials alone for my 88 quad repaint cost $665 USD. I have no idea what kind or quality of paint is available in Poland. You need to check on this. It would hardly be a bargain if you had all the body work done prior to the repaint only to have a poor quality paint applied which will not last.

There are very cheap paint shops in every big American city who will paint any car for $600 total price. They do this by doing no preparation work, only wiping the car off with chemicals which remove grease and wax. The paint they use is cheap - odd lots left over or past their expiration date. They buy any kind of paint they can get CHEAP. These repaints look like crap and do not last. They will blow off if the car is pressure washed.

In the end, you more or less get what you pay for. If you can take advantage of a reasonable labor rate in Poland, so much the better for you. But if the Polish shop used crap paint, in the end you will not get the result you are seeking. You need to check out the quality of the paint and painting materials in Poland befor comitting your Alfa to their care.

Robert
 

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I just shot some pics fast and uncontrolled with my cellphone, since I`m currently at work.

I checked yesterday, and yes, I do have the original paint code, and it seems like mr.spider already has its original paint, or at least its original color. The original color was a type of grey. This color was added on spiders from 82-85. My car is registered as 86-model, but was imported to Norway from Switzerland in 1999. It appears like they have just written a random date, 01-01-86 as the "first time registered date" in the registration book, since I really doubt that someone registered this car the first og january, which is a holiday, at least in Europe.. So it is actually a 85-model I have..hmm..

Yes, back to the pictures:

This is how my car looks like on an average day. Picture nr 4 and 5 show that area behind the back window where some surface rust was removed and repainted ca three weeks ago. (NB! Don`t be confused by the spots you may notice beneath in the pictures. It`s just some shadows from some trees behind me while taking the photos) :)


The last picture shows some rust on the rear outer panel (I think its called that in English). I repainted this two days ago, and removed some surface rust. But, as you might see, this area consists of serious rust which has been digging a hole. But, this is luckily an external part, and this is the outer panel (I think there`s an inner panel behind it too?!)..
 

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I just shot some pics fast and uncontrolled with my cellphone, since I`m currently at work.

I checked yesterday, and yes, I do have the original paint code, and it seems like mr.spider already has its original paint, or at least its original color. The original color was a type of grey. This color was added on spiders from 82-85. My car is registered as 86-model, but was imported to Norway from Switzerland in 1999. It appears like they have just written a random date, 01-01-86 as the "first time registered date" in the registration book, since I really doubt that someone registered this car the first og january, which is a holiday, at least in Europe.. So it is actually a 85-model I have..hmm..

Yes, back to the pictures:

This is how my car looks like on an average day. Picture nr 4 and 5 show that area behind the back window where some surface rust was removed and repainted ca three weeks ago. (NB! Don`t be confused by the spots you may notice beneath in the pictures. It`s just some shadows from some trees behind me while taking the photos) :)


The last picture shows some rust on the rear outer panel (I think its called that in English). I repainted this two days ago, and removed some surface rust. But, as you might see, this area consists of serious rust which has been digging a hole. But, this is luckily an external part, and this is the outer panel (I think there`s an inner panel behind it too?!)..
if thats the original paint , it looks to be in good shape. if it is, i would simply repair the areas that need repair and blend them. i wouldn't paint the whole car unless the paint is suffering somehow.
 

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The thing is that I can save some money by proving it is 30 years old and a veteran. So-called "veteran insurance" is very cheap, and annual "vehicle tax" to the public road administration is almost nothing when the car has become a veteran.

I guess the national road aministration in Norway will tell me that no matter what, they will stick to the official "first time registrated date", but insurance companies seem to be more flexible. Thus I want to use the chassis number and contact Alfa Romeo in Italy.

So, does anyone know where or who I am going to contact then? Is there an official t.phone number, e-mail adresse etc. (?), and will it be easy to prove that it is 85-model when I have the chassis number?
 

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So, does anyone know where or who I am going to contact then? Is there an official t.phone number, e-mail adresse etc. (?), and will it be easy to prove that it is 85-model when I have the chassis number?

send the full chassis number to
Mr. Marco Fazio
email: [email protected]

he usually replies in a couple of days
 
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