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Discussion Starter #1
not trying to start an argument here. i keep reading in threads where people refer to the most desireable year and engine and colors for Giulia Supers, but never mention what those might be. can anyone possibly provide their opinion on what those traits would be and why?

i know it will just be an opinion, and i don't want it to break into a full-fledged argument. so if you want, you can PM me with your list and maybe if i get enough responses, i can post the results here. or just post it here and let the discussion begin. i think everyone i've met here in this forum (sedans) has been very helpful and decent, so it may be quite a gentlemanly discussion.

please include any justification for the order of most desireable, since i still don't know enough about these wonderful sedans to be able to read between the lines.

as an example, i was looking on Autoscout 24 and in several ads in Italy the sellers mentioned the 1600 Biscione (serpent) engine. if i read correctly on here, Giulias were only imported for one year into the US. i'm assuming very few of those would've been 1600s. so is that one of those "rare" and desireable engines i hear so many whisper about? :eek: :confused:

i appreciate any response and think this could be quite an interesting thread. and since we all like eye candy, feel free to post a pic to illustrate your choices. thanks in advance...
 

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Ok I'll start off. Of course absolutely most desirable is the 65 Ti Super. About 500 made I think, quite a few of them tricked up with Autodelta gear. Has to be white. Actually I think the Giulia sedans in race trim need to be white. My opinion of course!
Next to be most collectable I would say an early series Super, the one with the two piece heart. Keep its original 1600 with maybe suspension and ATE brake upgrade and will definitely appreciate. I love it in some of the darker colours, Though Rolands white one(see pic) is sublime! After that, the 5 bar grille Supers would be my choice.
On the subject of engines, most Supers unless called otherwise have the 1600 engine as stock. The smaller engine was in the Super 1300 which there are also many of due to the European regulations of the time preference for smaller engines. These had more minimal appointment and usually the two headlamps, (I think. I should reread these threads...)

If I've posted a pic of someone's car and they want it removed let me know.
 

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The early years had sound dampening sprayed inside, they also had nicer trim and the steal used was better quality. The negatives are they have more primitive breaks and some had the ribbon speedometers.
I think the best one for the money is a 1600 CC from the early 70s. As for color, that is a matter of taste.
 

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One of the reasons I bought the basket case was because I feel it's about the most desirable non-"Ti-Super" model, and it's in a nice color. It's a '67 Super, Moss Green, with tan Skai interior. This is the last "Super" model officially imported to the US, and has some nice features like the chrome spears along the rockers, more deluxe side marker lights and front turn signals, the two-piece grille, and that sweet Aluminum steering wheel.
As cool as the 1300s, Tis, later Supers and Nuovas were and are the '65-'67 Supers have enough special touches that I think they're the cream of the crop.

-Jason
 

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Discussion Starter #5
great info, thanks everybody. some of the choices confirmed what i've read before, others have given me food for thought. :)
 

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JD, don't worry all Giulias are fantastic fun and so practical. Just buy the best one you can afford. Then drive it hard.
 

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Discussion Starter #7
JD, don't worry all Giulias are fantastic fun and so practical. Just buy the best one you can afford. Then drive it hard.
truer words have never been spoken. :) thanks, you're totally right.
 

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Giulia sedans

truer words have never been spoken. :) thanks, you're totally right.


IMO only :rolleyes: the most desirable is a 1967 Super, with ATE brakes and two piece grille. Mine is a '66, originally had Dunlop brakes, but now running 2-liter ATE's, quite a common upgrade.

But, I'd agree that any Giulia berlina is a blast to drive :D:D
 

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A case for making a distinction between the best Giulia for driving and the best for collectability could be made, but I don't think you'd get much argument that the most desirable (ignoring the ultra-rare Ti Super model) without qualifying that word is the first series through '67 1.6 Super. I'd even say that for someone in the U.S., the ultimate would be one that was originally a U.S. car (mostly because so few were imported new), that's lived a sheltered life in a dry climate. Outside the U.S., I saw the same thing during my search. There is a significant premium in asking price for the earliest Supers. Of course, in terms of collectability, you'd want everything as original as possible. So, an engine transplant from a later 1750 or 2000 model might make it a blast to drive, but in the long run it's going to negatively impact the value of these top condition first series Supers.

The '69-'71 Super (all 1.6, these were all "Biscione" models) would fall next in line in overall market desirability. These years didn't offer anything significantly different as far as the engine than the 1.6 Supers that preceeded or followed it, but it did have a few nice exterior trim upgrades over other years. I'd probably group the '68 Super with the Biscione years in desirability since the grille seems to be the primary characteristic people use to differentiate the models. But, the interior and airbox is from the first series and that could bump it up a bit. Also, after the first series, I'm sure that Europeans distinguish more between years than we do in the U.S. because none were ever imported new here after '67 and we didn't "grow up" with ingrained preferences.

Then you'd have the last couple years ('72 and '73) before the Nuova models, followed the '74-'76 Nuova models as the least desirable. Now, I'm only trying to cover the 4-headlight "Super" models. When you throw in Ti models, 1.3 liter 2-headlight models, it becomes a lot more a matter of individual taste. For instance, I really wanted the blue-ish colored Super gauges over the white on black more plastic looking version that was used in some models after the ribbon speedometer and metal dash was dropped.

For practical purposes though, what you'll find when you start looking at individual cars is that the condition, originality, upgrades, color combination, etc. of each car will weigh more in your decision unless you are looking for that ultimate collector to hide away. It's pretty rare that you'll get two cars that are available where "everything else is equal" other than year/color/model. For most people looking for a car to drive, it's all those other differences that will be the basis for making a choice. Of course, price also is a big differentiator :)

I'll also defer on the desirability of different colors as being a personal preference. From my own standpoint though, I'm thankful that the Giulia and Berlina 1750/2000 sedans aren't primarily found in "resale red" as are a high percentage of the GTVs and Spiders especially in the U.S.

On a side note, one thing I was glad to find during my search was that examples from Europe are just as likely to have never had a radio installed as those with a radio. Thus, you'll see blanking plates on the dash and door and rear valence panels that haven't been molested by speaker holes. Just another one of those "how cool is that" type of things to have a car that's well over 30 years old that no owner ever found necessary to turn into a rolling entertainment center.

Gary
 

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Discussion Starter #10
totally agree with you Gary. the radio thing is really cool and have heard some explain it as, with such a wonderful engine sound, why would you want a radio?

and i agree with the difference between driveability and being just a collector car. i want primarily a driver, so some of the "intrinsic value" is lost on me. i'd rather have a car that's fun to drive, than one that will appreciate the most. the reason i started this thread to begin with was to understand why some models are touted as more desireable, and therefore demand higher prices. i didn't want to pay for more than i wanted, just because one model has the ultra rare flux capacitor only found on 2 models, both of which were only imported into Botswana.

i'm starting to find one of the great mystiques to these cars is the bewildering number of different models, which just makes it all the more fun, like going on a treasure hunt.
 

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I completely agree about the resale red. That is the only color that just isn't right on a Super. As for the collectability factor... yes, these cars are jewels and there is a temptation to find a pristine car that is all original. But I would hate to loose the fun aspect of using the car as a dally driver. The perfect answer is to have two of them!
 

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As for the collectability factor... yes, these cars are jewels and there is a temptation to find a pristine car that is all original. But I would hate to loose the fun aspect of using the car as a dally driver. The perfect answer is to have two of them!
I think that Giulia Bianca (Roland) has got that two-car approach nailed. His first series white Super is a perfect original example of what will be the most collectible Giulia sedan outside of the Ti Super. Then his '72 Super 1.3 upgraded to a 2.0 with some performance tweaks, upgraded brakes, suspension, wheels, and seats in Pino Verde is what a lot of us strive for as the ultimate driver Giulia.

Gary
 

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Here's one to drool over that may fit the mold of being too much towards the original collector end of the market to be what most of us want as a driver. This one was briefly on then off the market (rather eccentric owner) in Europe while I was searching. Roland found it while attending an Alfa event. I passed partly because the firm asking price was 3000 Euros more than I ended up paying for mine (this was before mine hit the market so I wasn't comparing them directly). But, just as important it's a first series bench-seat column-shift 1.6 Ti in such good condition that I didn't know if I could stand to drive it risking anything from a rock chip to a fender bender (and also keeping myself from wanting to convert it to a floor shift with bucket seats). Beautiful color though. I believe it's also original paint, but I can't remember that for certain. Now that I have my driver Giulia though (and if I had just won the lottery), it would make an ideal "second Giulia".

To me though the existence of cars like this squashes the whole notion that the $55K Super (yes, I see it's now bargain priced under $43K) is a reasonable buy. Regardless of how much the restoration cost, the market won't bear that price and others like this can be had for much less. For those curious, the asking price of this car back in the summer, using an exchange rate I got today, would be $20K. Add in shipping and other fees and still not much more than half of the $43K model. Plus, it's original rather than a restoration and, as they say, "a car is original only once, but can be restored many times."

Gary
 

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Discussion Starter #14
I think that Giulia Bianca (Roland) has got that two-car approach nailed. His first series white Super is a perfect original example of what will be the most collectible Giulia sedan outside of the Ti Super. Then his '72 Super 1.3 upgraded to a 2.0 with some performance tweaks, upgraded brakes, suspension, wheels, and seats in Pino Verde is what a lot of us strive for as the ultimate driver Giulia.

Gary
and someday they shall be mine.... *insert maniacal laugh here*
 

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Discussion Starter #15
Here's one to drool over that may fit the mold of being too much towards the original collector end of the market to be what most of us want as a driver. This one was briefly on then off the market (rather eccentric owner) in Europe while I was searching. Roland found it while attending an Alfa event. I passed partly because the firm asking price was 3000 Euros more than I ended up paying for mine (this was before mine hit the market so I wasn't comparing them directly). But, just as important it's a first series bench-seat column-shift 1.6 Ti in such good condition that I didn't know if I could stand to drive it risking anything from a rock chip to a fender bender (and also keeping myself from wanting to convert it to a floor shift with bucket seats). Beautiful color though. I believe it's also original paint, but I can't remember that for certain. Now that I have my driver Giulia though (and if I had just won the lottery), it would make an ideal "second Giulia".

To me though the existence of cars like this squashes the whole notion that the $55K Super (yes, I see it's now bargain priced under $43K) is a reasonable buy. Regardless of how much the restoration cost, the market won't bear that price and others like this can be had for much less. For those curious, the asking price of this car back in the summer, using an exchange rate I got today, would be $20K. Add in shipping and other fees and still not much more than half of the $43K model. Plus, it's original rather than a restoration and, as they say, "a car is original only once, but can be restored many times."

Gary
Roland sent me these pics yesterday. *drool* he mentioned that it had been repainted, but the rest was original. he said the price should be around 16K Euro, around $24K. i think it'd be worth all that, plus the $2K to import it. if only i had the money. then again, i want a driver... but this would make a great second Alfa. :)
 

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The perfect Super......

Some beautiful cars posted here and a lot of great info for the average Alfisti who has not experienced these wonderful models.

I think that one has to get as much info and see as many different models to find out which combination truely fits your own ideas for the "perfect Giulia".
Once you see the vast selection of cars in Europe (each with it's own combination of price, originality, collectability, and performance) the choices become harder!

Randy
 

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Discussion Starter #17
oh i agree. i've become addicted to Autoscout 24. i check it every day and have most available Giulias in Europe memorized. sad part is that i can't pull the trigger just yet. if it wasn't for that, there'd be at least one Giulia on it's way over the big pond.
 

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If you think that really nice Supers can't be driven......
here's a pic of my wife and I in Roland's wonderful Bianca! We were visiting in our search for a good car to bring home and Roland invited us along on a Dutch Alfa Club rally! This was my first time behind the wheel of a Super and we spent the entire day touring the lanes and villages in Holland. You could say that I was instantly hooked! Many thanks for the outstanding hospitality of Roland (and his courage, I had never driven in Europe before!!!)
 

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Discussion Starter #19
totally agree Randy, but if i say one more nice thing about Roland, his wife will think we're having an affair. ;) it's enough i lust after his Alfas in my heart, and you know how Jimmy Carter feels about that. :D
 

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:D

Thanks for the compliments :cool:

@ Randy, yep, that was fun !!!

About the blue TI, car had a very expensive repaint but was a very unmolested rustfree car, it only suffered from faded paint, it is for sale at the moment because the current owner found his dream Giulia after a 5 year search, a 62 drum brake dark grey TI in concours condition, I don't know the actual asking price but will be around €12000 to €14000
 
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