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Discussion Starter #1
After an accident with our 164 in May, the hassle with dealing with someone else's insurance company and an extended time to source parts and get the repairs finished, we have had a month of motoring in what I thought was the best 164 in South Australia. I took the opportunity to have further work done including repainting the roof and fitting new headlights while the car was off the road.

Just yesterday, on the same f$%king intersection almost 2 months to the day, a person went straight through on a red light hitting our 164 on the side, spinning the car 180 degrees and into a traffic light smashing the front end. Thankfully my wife and son are ok and we are insured, but I suspect it will be borderline to have repaired.









 

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I'm sorry to see that happen! It looks like a really nice car. I don't think the rear damage is too bad, really. I'm looking at the panel seams.
How about a side view of the front damage, both left and right?
Is the other party liable?
Just looked at the photos again. That's a beautiful car. Don't panic!
 

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Sorry, that is a bummer. I'll bet you are beyond :mad: at this point.
Charles
 

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You will be surprised at how superficial that damage is. The things that write off an old car are the A, B and C pillars. If any of those gets bent then it is cut and weld and that is expensive.

Granted the front and rear damage together will be a fair sum but at least there is no structural damage.

BTW, if that was all that resulted from a red light runner then whoever was driving your car was pretty skilled as well as lucky. Red light running is flat out the worst two vehicle collision risk. People who run red lights should have the book thrown at them, it doesn't matter why they failed to stop. Over here we just photograph them automatically and send them a ticket in the mail, no license demerits...crazy.
 

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Discussion Starter #5
Thanks for the comments guys - it was my wife that was driving at the time, more or less only just recovered from the last incident (I was driving, my wife was passenger 2 months ago). We've had the car as our daily, well looked after, drive for nearly 7 years. Yes, red light runners don't deserve a license. My son was only 1m away from being severely injured or worse. If anything, it shows how well designed the 164 is because there is no damage at the A/B/C pillars and all doors open close without issue.

The initial feedback from the repairer is not good, however the insurance assessment hasn't gone through yet. The front I'm not worried about. Headlight, bonnet, radiator, condenser and headlight can all be sourced. I have a (partial) spare car and can cut the front metal section behind the bumper which can be welded in, repainted etc.

The rear however is the biggest concern. It looks like the entire backend has moved a bit which means it needs to go on the chassis table jig - the rear quarter panel will need to be cut out. The spare car also has this, mint - and I can cut it out and hand it over to the repairer to save some cost.

I'm reluctant to let the car go - the interior is near mint, the rest of the paint is near similar (I just put in a new headlight on the otherside 7 days ago too). I also have considerable $ invested in the heads and I was planning on rebuilding the bottom end of the motor in the next 3-4 months. The suspension bushes and shocks were also going to be replaced.

I suspect the insurance company will write it off and pay us out - possibly enough to cover the cost of repairs - but that's the cost of another car. So I'm pretty confused as to what to do next... the insurance company will only sell it off for $500 and someone will walk away with a worked heads and an awesome interior, if they don't fix.

As Bruce Willis said in Die Hard 2, how can the same **** happen to same person twice?!

Cheers,
Benjamin
 

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Discussion Starter #6
I've been to the workshop tonight to check out the spare car, and having thoroughly looked over the rear section from rear door to rear door around the boot area, I'm confident I can cut out the entire section as one piece and hand it to the repairer to graft onto our 164. The metal can be cut along the seams behind the various seals and under the bumper so the repair won't be seen when finished.

We'll see how the repairer's feedback goes in the next few days..
 

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That's really bad luck :( But always positive that it is only material damage.

Based on the pictures, the front end doesn't look that bad and as you say, the parts can be replaced. I had the same issue with mine (only front) and they managed to fix that without problems.

Hopefully, the rear is not too bad, but some work definitely needs to be put in to correct it. Good that you have parts to use. I hope you get it back on the road, especially considering the very good condition of the car before the accident.
 

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That's a real shame mate. I hope you can get it fixed. I used to have a 1956 Beetle and a guy drove into the side of it on Anzac Highway and four days after I got it back, looking nice with new paint all over, some idiot drove into the back of it when I was stationary at the Seacombe-Brighton road intersection. Unfortunately the repairer didn't do as good a job of the paint the second time and it never looked as good as it was before. I only had third party property insurance in those days and they always screwed you over on the payout even when the other guy was 100% at fault. That's why all my cars are comprehensively insured with Shannons now. I have never had a hassle with them.
 

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The front is not bad at all, I am sure you can gather a few parts and get that repaired. The rear does not look menacing either. My 164S before getting crushed by a falling oak tree was found damaged by a non-honest neighbor backing out of his driveway. They had visitors the night before so I could not point any fingers and the police did not investigate to save their lives. Fortunately I used to be a mechanic and body fabrication guy before going back to school. The dent repaired so well that when the oak tree crushed the car (including the rear end), my repair job bent with the metal, but none of the minimal body filler used, not the paint hardly came off.
 

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I did not take pics after I repainted it with the red, but you could not even tell, some good base-clear, and it was like new. I had no issues with metal stretching being too bad with exception for one spot where I had to heat shrink it.
 

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Discussion Starter #11
Well I just got back from the repairer and had an extensive look at the damage. The rear is not anywhere near as bad as I originally thought. Rear suspension arm has bent and the pick points are still spot on. I can have another quarter panel grafted on, while a complex job, is certainly feasible.

The front is more worrying. The impact on the post has caused the top cross member to be pushed in which has in turn caused the inner part of the engine bay on the opposite side of the impact to be deformed. It may have also pushed the lower front crossmember - if that has happened then it is starting to look like an engine out job to repair. The repairer will put the car on the rig and pull out the top cross member, but it is questionable if the engine bay panel will deform back to its correct shape. Both headlights are stuffed, the strain from the impact warped the headlight assembly on the driver's side and caused the glass to crack... $900 of recently purchased lights are now fit for the bin...

So, I'm really quite confused as to what to do next - I will get back a fair sum if if the insurer writes it off, but I reckon I will still need to put in a bit more to get it completely repaired. This totals to more than double what I can buy another 164 for. *But*, my concern is I'll be buying another car with 200,000km+ on the clock, the usual issues for a high mileage car and a worn interior etc. I'll then have 2 parts cars and a runner... but I feel I'll be just collecting junk as opposed getting on with having a reliable/good daily driver. Perhaps I should cut my losses and save for a 166 or even a (dare I say it) BMW 5 series...

Cheers,
Benjamin
 

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I am sure you remember what a real totaled 164 looks like

Here is aftermath of my daughter's snow ride last Feb but if this makes you feel any better about your little fender bender I don't know.

I am using the good underbelly brake lines and fuel lines to rehab the Black 164S I bought with her car's insurance settlement check.
 

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Well I just got back from the repairer and had an extensive look at the damage. The rear is not anywhere near as bad as I originally thought. Rear suspension arm has bent and the pick points are still spot on. I can have another quarter panel grafted on, while a complex job, is certainly feasible.

The front is more worrying. The impact on the post has caused the top cross member to be pushed in which has in turn caused the inner part of the engine bay on the opposite side of the impact to be deformed. It may have also pushed the lower front crossmember - if that has happened then it is starting to look like an engine out job to repair. The repairer will put the car on the rig and pull out the top cross member, but it is questionable if the engine bay panel will deform back to its correct shape. Both headlights are stuffed, the strain from the impact warped the headlight assembly on the driver's side and caused the glass to crack... $900 of recently purchased lights are now fit for the bin...

So, I'm really quite confused as to what to do next - I will get back a fair sum if if the insurer writes it off, but I reckon I will still need to put in a bit more to get it completely repaired. This totals to more than double what I can buy another 164 for. *But*, my concern is I'll be buying another car with 200,000km+ on the clock, the usual issues for a high mileage car and a worn interior etc. I'll then have 2 parts cars and a runner... but I feel I'll be just collecting junk as opposed getting on with having a reliable/good daily driver. Perhaps I should cut my losses and save for a 166 or even a (dare I say it) BMW 5 series...

Cheers,
Benjamin
Ben,

It can be fixed!! I have been thinking about it a lot today after seeing it this morning.

You have a donor car with 90% of the parts you need, huge plus! I think we should wait for the report from the repairer on monday after their close inspection and their list of parts needed. Then we will get stuck into cutting parts off the donor car. We will even get the rear suspension arms off and put them on at the panel shop so they can move it about easier and line things up better, its an easy job. Dont worry about the front end - far worse has been repaired before - the damaged passenger side can have the piece replaced from the donor car and the repair shops jig will sort out the drivers side I know it - it looks worse than it is, its all still square where it needs to be. I dont see that the subframe has shifted at all, if so the jig will sort it out.

We will keep the cost down as much as we can by stripping out things like the airbox and hoses etc in the engine bay, peeling back wiring, taking the bonnet off, wrecked bumpers, stripping out the rear seats and boot carpet and battery etc It will be fixed properly and will be as good as new, if not better. Trust me!

Here is aftermath of my daughter's snow ride last Feb but if this makes you feel any better about your little fender bender I don't know.

I am using the good underbelly brake lines and fuel lines to rehab the Black 164S I bought with her car's insurance settlement check.
I hope your daughter was alright in that crash, thats a scary looking aftermath.
 

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I hope your daughter was alright in that crash, thats a scary looking aftermath.
She is fine after getting out of neck brace in late May. Now driving my 164B.
 

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Well I just got back from the repairer and had an extensive look at the damage. The rear is not anywhere near as bad as I originally thought. Rear suspension arm has bent and the pick points are still spot on. I can have another quarter panel grafted on, while a complex job, is certainly feasible.

The front is more worrying. The impact on the post has caused the top cross member to be pushed in which has in turn caused the inner part of the engine bay on the opposite side of the impact to be deformed. It may have also pushed the lower front crossmember - if that has happened then it is starting to look like an engine out job to repair. The repairer will put the car on the rig and pull out the top cross member, but it is questionable if the engine bay panel will deform back to its correct shape. Both headlights are stuffed, the strain from the impact warped the headlight assembly on the driver's side and caused the glass to crack... $900 of recently purchased lights are now fit for the bin...

So, I'm really quite confused as to what to do next - I will get back a fair sum if if the insurer writes it off, but I reckon I will still need to put in a bit more to get it completely repaired. This totals to more than double what I can buy another 164 for. *But*, my concern is I'll be buying another car with 200,000km+ on the clock, the usual issues for a high mileage car and a worn interior etc. I'll then have 2 parts cars and a runner... but I feel I'll be just collecting junk as opposed getting on with having a reliable/good daily driver. Perhaps I should cut my losses and save for a 166 or even a (dare I say it) BMW 5 series...

Cheers,
Benjamin
I have seen way worse being repaired no problem during the ten plus years working as a body man. However, if you do not feel like repairing the damage and feel that the car is especially cursed ( I did once mine got crushed), then for God's sake, go with the 166 if you can. Forget the BMR, I tell you, most of us in the States would go for that option if only it were available. I have been dreaming a 155 even...we do not have much choice here for newer Alfas, there is nothing available over 1995.
 

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Sorry to read of such a report :(
I hope it will be fixed. I think it is probably still a better bet than a 166, considering the work you have put in and the fact that 166s are way more expensive in Australia than here.

-Alex
 

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Discussion Starter #17
Another update - Insurance company has writen off the 164 and we'll be paid out shortly minus the usual salvage value and some other fees. I've estimated the repairs and parts to cost approximately $1000-$2000 more than what we'll receive but there is still some concern that the front suspension geometry is out of skew and I won't really know unless the repair is started. That said the 164 is a strong car and the quality of the engineering is evident, so hopefully I don't have a lot to worry about here.

But, I'll be committing to nearly $10k Australian to repair this car! It is a crazy amount of money, but I've considered these alternatives:

Alfa 166 series 1.
Most are quite high mileage (180k to 200k+) and are over 10 years old. Cheaper cars have no or little service history in their later miles and the gearbox and heater leak issues with this model are a great concern.

Alfa 166 series 2.
Only 1 car on the Australian market that I can find that would be just within reach with my current budget and it has very high mileage (200k+).

Another 164.
I've said to myself I don't want to go down this path because I'll end up taking our wrecked car back to the workshop and keep swapping parts over. I will not get another 164 with paint as good as ours without a respray and again this brings back the $ close to what it will cost to repair our car anyway. And then I'm starting again with all the usual 164 gremlins that I've spent years sorting on ours unless I start swapping over components. This is a daily driver, not a restoration project (I have 2 others of these).

Replace with a Toyato/Mitsubishi/Ford/Holden up to $10k.
I can't really bare the thought of going down this path. I've driven countless work cars that fit this category and they literally bore the **** our of me. The 164 is a planted car on the road I've not driven a "daily" with as much presence...

BMW/Volkswagen/Audi/Merc/Jag
All valid alternatives, but they seem to have a premium value compared to Alfas on the Australian market and the Germanic cars' parts are expensive. A 10-15 year old BMW will have just as many potential issues as an Alfa and again I'm probably looking at average paint and worn interiors - more $ to put right after purchase.

Finance to $20-$30k. Not an option for me due to my current obligations - owning the vehicle outright is definitely preferable.

I guess I'm fussy? My heart tells me to repair our 164 - I know the car, I know what I still have to do to keep it running well. But am I just throwing good money after bad because of someone else's decision to run a red light?

I need to make a decision by Saturday....

~Benjamin
 

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Total balls, annoying and extremely unfair. In an ideal world, you would get like for like, not a used value estimation that will not put you back into a car in exact same or as close as possible to what you had, condition. I don't know how the legal system in your neck of the woods works (I wouldn't even consider taking this to court in "backward" Spain) so I don't know if it might be worth fighting the insurance company and go for a bigger pay out that would maybe help justify a restoration.
 

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Hi Ben,

You know your car, you know what the car needs and you will know how the repairs are done.

So in my opinion, even though the car is wounded, by repairing it on your way as YOU want to, the 164 will be back on the road and the time will start again for the 164 like the accident never happened.

After all someone's mess is not worth writing off such a well kept car.
 

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You shoiuld be able to get a better settlement considering condition of car. Did you have documentation for previous repair cost and maintenance actions to keep car in top shape?

When Sara wrecked her 164B adjustor even measured thread depth of my new tires and condition of paint on remaining sheetmetal, etc.

I think I got a good settlement for a super nice 164 with 190,000 miles due to condition.

I had $500 deductible and they only charged me $350 for salvage rights as that is all junkyard would give for it. So 850 deducted from settlement check. I then was able to buy a 164S from my friend and still have money left over.
 
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