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Montreal Head Studs

7K views 61 replies 9 participants last post by  robo330 
#1 ·
I am looking for a source for high quality Montreal head studs. My usual sources don't seem to list them... or are they the same as late 1300 studs?
Thanks in advance
Dale
 
#3 · (Edited)
Dale, I wish that I could be helpful. Does this mean that you have your engine out and are rebuilding it? I looked at 105Revive.com website but did not see any head studs listed. They do part out a few Montreal's so may be worth an email. How bad are your studs? Perhaps they could be welded and machined, if pitting is localized to one or two areas.

How long are the Montreal head studs? I searched Montreal head studs and all four of these studs came up:

750/084 230mm for 1300 750/101
EN129 238mm for 1300 (late 101/105)
EN130 246mm for 1600 (105)
EN131 ??? for 1750/2000 (105/115, I think)

Mark
 
#4 ·
Hi Mark,
Yes the engine is out and apart. Last year I replaced the seals in hope that it would stop the oil smoke on start up issue but it was of little help. Everything inside looks great except that some of the guides were pretty worn. Crank, camshafts, pistons and liners all look really good with little wear. A little honing and new rings etc will work. Several of the head studs were damaged in disassembly. They are M12's like late 101's and 105's but only 190mm long with 22mm threads on each end. All the 101 and 105 studs I've ever seen are longer than that, So I'm on a search for new quality ones that will fit the Montreal.
 
#7 ·
They are M12's like late 101's and 105's but only 190mm long with 22mm threads on each end. All the 101 and 105 studs I've ever seen are longer than that, So I'm on a search for new quality ones that will fit the Montreal.
If you can't find head studs readily available, I suppose you could buy the longer studs, cut them to length and thread the cut ends.

"Several of the head studs were damaged in disassembly"...how; I would like to avoid this step if possible. Were you removing the studs when they were damaged? In my recently rebuilt 1966 Duetto engine the studs still looked very good, with little corrosion.

Mark
 
#5 ·
Hi Dale.

I used ARP ones in my engine, but can't remember if they were custom made or modified off the shelf ones as my engine builder did the removal and install as part of the machining work. He did have a lot of trouble removing the old studs... Partly because he was apprehensive in using brute force in case it snapped or tore a chunk out of the block.

I'll make contact with him and see if he any anything on file about the studs for you.

Regards
Phil.
 
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#13 ·
Hi Dale.

I used ARP ones in my engine, but can't remember if they were custom made or modified off the shelf ones as my engine builder did the removal and install as part of the machining work. He did have a lot of trouble removing the old studs... Partly because he was apprehensive in using brute force in case it snapped or tore a chunk out of the block.

I'll make contact with him and see if he any anything on file about the studs for you.

Regards
Phil.
Phil, ARP makes excellent head stud/bolt kits. However all their Alfa parts are custom and spendy.
 
#8 ·
I replied to a different thread on this subject. Rolled threads are superior!

Hi Dale, I would contact Alfaholics, they sell rolled threaded studs for the 4 cylinder cars, maybe they can special order a shorter set for the Montreal. Another option would be to contact a thread rolling company here in the States and ask if they can provide something comparable, I would think they would know what material to use. Good luck, Pete.
BTW, you want rolled threads only, not cut threads. Classicalfa cuts their studs.
 
#10 ·
Great news Dale.

I won't get down to the engine builder till next week when I have to drop an engine off. But will get the info for further reference anyway should you/anyone else still need it.
 
#16 ·
Just contact ARP! What is the Length of the Montreal Studs? What is the Length of the Threaded Portion at each end and that is the Thread Size and Frequency (1.0, 1.25 or 1.5)???
If you have a Stud out of the engine, please send these simple details. I am sure that a number of Montreal Owners would love to have a Spare Set of Head Studs.
 
#20 ·
Hello Peter,
I believe that Dale sent some dimensions. The Studs are M12 and are 190.0 mm long. The threaded portion is 22.0 mm on both ends. The heat treatment specifications, hardness, etc, I don't know. I imagine you would have to have very specific machining available to make the rolled threads and also in the length required.

Karl
 
#22 ·
Hello folks, I have managed to find a source for Cylinder Head Studs. All of you who are interested, let me know and I will get back to you with a pricing.
The Studs will be M12 x 1.5 Thread 190.0 mm Rolled Thread. The specs reflect normal automotive usage and the Torque specified will be around 100.0 ft. lbs. The Montreal calls for 60 to 65 ft.lbs. Some of us go as high as 75.0 ft.lbs depending on usage. As I have stated, I need to hear back soon to get this done. Quantities will of course dictate the price. Thank you.
Peter: If you are investigating making these Head Studs and intend to do so soon, I will not interfere with that exercise. As you know, investing in making Rolled Thread fasteners can be very expensive.
 
#25 ·
I became aware of a lack of supply for Cylinder Head Studs a year ago when I was re-building my Montreal engine. Luckily, the Cylinder Head Studs in my engine were in good shape and did not require re-placement.
Unfortunately, for me, I was convinced into investigating Cylinder Head Studs for the Alfa Romeo Montreal for a fellow Montreal owner. As most of us are aware, these do not seem to be available anymore, and if they are available, they must be a very well kept secret!
Anyway, long story short, I made a concerted effort to find some Head Studs that would work for the Montreal, negotiated some samples, and then went ahead with the customers concurrence, and ordered a complete car set - 20 Studs, only to be informed shortly thereafter that the person had changed their mind and did not want them anymore! This has put me in a situation of being financially inconvenienced, not to mention my loss of credibility with the European supplier who went out of their way to support the exercise.
Needless to say, I will not be doing this again, nor will I be accepting any persons verbal orders in future. In fact I am seriously re-considering whether I should continue supporting efforts to develop, make and supply what I call "Unobtanium Parts" for the Alfa Romeo Montreal.... Sad state of affairs!
 
#26 ·
Keep your head up, Karl. There is a conga line of owners who are grateful to you for all your genuine efforts to support us all. Do you have a set of studs to spare? I'm not at that stage yet, but no doubt I will be once my car is painted (in the decades to come).
 
#27 · (Edited)
Thanks Rob I agree with you... I'm very grateful that we have people like Karl with the talents and expertise that are prepared to stick their necks out and reproduce various parts that no longer available. It's never nice to be let down with cancelled orders but I'm sure someone will be keen to take them once the word is out you have a set available.

Karl, many thanks for the head tool and those lovey Betone emblems.

Regards
Phil.
 
#29 ·
BUMP!
I have decided that for the better good to keep supporting the Alfa Romeo Montreal Owners on this forum with "Hard to Find / Unobtanium" Parts! Can't let the turkeys drag you down, right?
New Sets of Cylinder Head Studs are available in lots of 20.
Rolled Threads only. M12 X 1.5 mm
Length - 190.0 mm
 
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