milano suspension
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I cut my rear springs at one point with a disc grinder. It lowered the rear of my '87 Milano Gold to about level with the front. Not bad. However, a pair of springs are like $190 at the most, it would be better to just by some IAP lowering springs or something.
O yeah, did you know you have torsion bars at the front?
O yeah, did you know you have torsion bars at the front?
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2,465 Posts
yeah you cannot cut the front..you have to adjust it down...the rear yeah you can cut the coil "if" you have to.....but i would sugjest running a set of spring clamps (rear) first to see how you like the feel first BEFORE cutting them as it will change the feel and handle of the car
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487 Posts
Keep in mind ...
That by removing one coil, you'll have one less coil to compress under load. It will lower the car as you desire, but you increase the chance of "bottoming" out with a shortened the travel length and less spring range - an unintended byproduct of cutting.
If possible, go for the lowered or progressive rate springs to achieve your goal. Good luck.
That by removing one coil, you'll have one less coil to compress under load. It will lower the car as you desire, but you increase the chance of "bottoming" out with a shortened the travel length and less spring range - an unintended byproduct of cutting.
If possible, go for the lowered or progressive rate springs to achieve your goal. Good luck.
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731 Posts
It depends. If your car is a 1987 car, it has really high springs. If you get the rear springs from a 88 or later car it will lower the back an inch.
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8,026 Posts
Lowering your Milano
Don`t be alarmed by these guys, cut a coil & 1/2 (1.5 coils) off, then heat the last 2/3`s of the last (cut) coil & create a flat bottom to it so it sits in the pan correctly. It will be fine, it`s just steel, and if you let it cool slowly will be OK. Don`t quench it to cool it. The fewer spring coils will result in a "higher" spring rate but it is needed.
If you are going to lower the front, the 27.3mm Torsion bars make good street pieces. Read the manual re; adj. torsion bars.
It will be worth doing.
Don`t be alarmed by these guys, cut a coil & 1/2 (1.5 coils) off, then heat the last 2/3`s of the last (cut) coil & create a flat bottom to it so it sits in the pan correctly. It will be fine, it`s just steel, and if you let it cool slowly will be OK. Don`t quench it to cool it. The fewer spring coils will result in a "higher" spring rate but it is needed.
If you are going to lower the front, the 27.3mm Torsion bars make good street pieces. Read the manual re; adj. torsion bars.
It will be worth doing.
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4,501 Posts
Don't settle simply for a lowered look; there is SO much more to be had from the performance of these cars in the area of suspension. Beware though - 27mm torsion bars are a TERRIBLE solution! They are a PAIN in the arse to set up and really don't add that much in terms of a rate-increase (nowhere NEAR what you need on the front of these cars any way...)
I'll gladly sell you mine - I am going back to the stock bars with added coil-overs!
With the thicker torsion bars you lose the ability to pull the bar through the rear of the cross-member - an integral part to adjusting ride-height up-front! Now you have to completely disassemble the LCA - each try - while attempting to set ride-height!
Keep the stock torsion bars, reset ride-height and add coil-overs (if you desire more spring-rate...) These cars need it and the 27mm bars don't come close to adding what you need.
I agree with Richard in one sense - these cars need the spring-rate at the rear as well - there are some nice trick adjustable rear springs available as well - have a look at the RSRacing setups.
I'll gladly sell you mine - I am going back to the stock bars with added coil-overs!
With the thicker torsion bars you lose the ability to pull the bar through the rear of the cross-member - an integral part to adjusting ride-height up-front! Now you have to completely disassemble the LCA - each try - while attempting to set ride-height!
Keep the stock torsion bars, reset ride-height and add coil-overs (if you desire more spring-rate...) These cars need it and the 27mm bars don't come close to adding what you need.
I agree with Richard in one sense - these cars need the spring-rate at the rear as well - there are some nice trick adjustable rear springs available as well - have a look at the RSRacing setups.
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243 Posts
27m torsion bars
JJ has his opinions, but imho, he is not correct. for a street car that sees occasional track use, the 27s are an excellent selection - and have been for a very long time. they are stiff enough to make a significant difference in handling and you can live with them quite nicely on the road. take his offer and buy his. even new, they are quite inexpensive. torsion bars are not that hard to change, and once you set the ride height, you are good to go. if you want more spring, they are available in bigger diameters. i (performatek.com) offer them in any diameter you want - up to 36mm. imho, 30s are about as stiff as any sane person would want to run on the street. 33mm is an excellent spring for dedicated track car. going more than 33 will be stiff enough to twist the front end and will need to reinforce the front end structure.
good luck with the car.
andy
JJ has his opinions, but imho, he is not correct. for a street car that sees occasional track use, the 27s are an excellent selection - and have been for a very long time. they are stiff enough to make a significant difference in handling and you can live with them quite nicely on the road. take his offer and buy his. even new, they are quite inexpensive. torsion bars are not that hard to change, and once you set the ride height, you are good to go. if you want more spring, they are available in bigger diameters. i (performatek.com) offer them in any diameter you want - up to 36mm. imho, 30s are about as stiff as any sane person would want to run on the street. 33mm is an excellent spring for dedicated track car. going more than 33 will be stiff enough to twist the front end and will need to reinforce the front end structure.
good luck with the car.
andy
27 mm bars
I have been meaning so start a thread on this subject, but since this one is already here... I am thinking about getting some 27 mm bars for my Milano gold to go with my Ricambi sport springs in the rear. New shocks are probably in my future too (should I get konis or bilsteins?? haha just kidding).
I want to lower the front some more, but since I am running 17 inch wheels I would like to stiffen up the suspension to avoid any rubbing issues. Obviously I would LOVE to get the RSR coilover setup, but I am currently a (relatively) poor college student, and there is no way that is going to happen anytime soon. Plus, my car only sees the track a few times a year at autocrosses, it is basically a street car. In the meantime at least, I don't need the ultimate performance solution, I just want to make my car sit right on those wheels!
I have been meaning so start a thread on this subject, but since this one is already here... I am thinking about getting some 27 mm bars for my Milano gold to go with my Ricambi sport springs in the rear. New shocks are probably in my future too (should I get konis or bilsteins?? haha just kidding).
I want to lower the front some more, but since I am running 17 inch wheels I would like to stiffen up the suspension to avoid any rubbing issues. Obviously I would LOVE to get the RSR coilover setup, but I am currently a (relatively) poor college student, and there is no way that is going to happen anytime soon. Plus, my car only sees the track a few times a year at autocrosses, it is basically a street car. In the meantime at least, I don't need the ultimate performance solution, I just want to make my car sit right on those wheels!
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3,771 Posts
Hi Walker, welcome to th forum!
Check this out: It has good points from many different and respected members of the Transaxle community.
I too am just a poor college student, so I feel you.
http://alfabb.com/bb/forums/showthread.php?t=41095&highlight=drop+spindles
But basically, 27mm and SS springs are NOT as stiff as they sound. They end up being 200lb/in in the fron and 156 lb/in in the rear. Any true dual purpose car should atleast be 300lb/inch in the front as a minimum I think. These cars are relatively heavy and need spring rate.
Check this out: It has good points from many different and respected members of the Transaxle community.
I too am just a poor college student, so I feel you.
http://alfabb.com/bb/forums/showthread.php?t=41095&highlight=drop+spindles
But basically, 27mm and SS springs are NOT as stiff as they sound. They end up being 200lb/in in the fron and 156 lb/in in the rear. Any true dual purpose car should atleast be 300lb/inch in the front as a minimum I think. These cars are relatively heavy and need spring rate.
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83 Posts
cmilano,
Been there, done that. You will get a lowered look while increasing the spring rate a bit. Unless you already have some decent shocks on the car, you may not like the result. It is the cheapest way to get the look if that is what you are after.
Alternatively, if interested, I have a set of rear high performance springs that I used on my GTV6. It was later transferred to Jes' Roxanne (Milano track car). We both went with RSR suspension and these springs are just sitting in my garage collecting dust. The springs were cut a coil or two to match the lowered fronts of our race cars. I have absolutely no use for these springs. You can have it cheap if you want to experience what cut springs are like.
Good luck.
Colin
Been there, done that. You will get a lowered look while increasing the spring rate a bit. Unless you already have some decent shocks on the car, you may not like the result. It is the cheapest way to get the look if that is what you are after.
Alternatively, if interested, I have a set of rear high performance springs that I used on my GTV6. It was later transferred to Jes' Roxanne (Milano track car). We both went with RSR suspension and these springs are just sitting in my garage collecting dust. The springs were cut a coil or two to match the lowered fronts of our race cars. I have absolutely no use for these springs. You can have it cheap if you want to experience what cut springs are like.
Good luck.
Colin
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88 Posts
im only 17 and dont have much money to spend on the car.
thats y i was interested to see if just cutting the springs and adjusting the front torsion bars would be acceptable.i want to get rid of the gap in the wheel well so i think ill probably go with the rs racing springs in the rear and then just adjust the front torsion bars.how much do the torsion bars allow u to lower the front end?
thats y i was interested to see if just cutting the springs and adjusting the front torsion bars would be acceptable.i want to get rid of the gap in the wheel well so i think ill probably go with the rs racing springs in the rear and then just adjust the front torsion bars.how much do the torsion bars allow u to lower the front end?
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659 Posts
Low enough to wipe up your oil sump on the smallest speed hump
Just keep in mind the ideal geometry for these cars is to have the rear slightly higher than the front. It may look a little weird, but evening it or reversing it will alter the handling characteristics quite dramatically. You'll also lose high speed stability as the front will start to lift too far. Trust me, I know
ROCK ON
R~R
Just keep in mind the ideal geometry for these cars is to have the rear slightly higher than the front. It may look a little weird, but evening it or reversing it will alter the handling characteristics quite dramatically. You'll also lose high speed stability as the front will start to lift too far. Trust me, I know
ROCK ON
R~R
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243 Posts
27mm torsion bars and super sport springs
fwiw, 27mm torsion bars are stiffer than grant indicates and the rear springs are softer.
imho, wheel rate is the only way to measure this stuff. that is a measure of the force required to raise the wheel an inch. on a specific chassis, wheel rate is wheel rate - takes spring location/angle out of the equation and gives the net result.
short bars (milano & late GTV6) have a wheel rate of ~ 294#/inch. long bars (alfetta & GTV6 to mid '85) are ~ 274#/inch.
the SS rear springs are ~ 140#/inch.
imho, there is absolutely no tangible benefit to spending the huge $ required for an RSR suspension.
if money is a consideration for you - buy JJs used 27s, throw them in and enjoy your car.
in my experiences, you do need a stiffer shock to adequately control the heavier springs - but if need be, you can get by w/ stock units until you can afford more.
as to F/R ride height - best way to set is to corner weight the car. if that is not easily accessible for you, good rule of thumb is to set rear 1/2" - 1" higher than front (measuring to the bottom of the jack points, if you still have them, is very convenient). will be close enough to give satisfactory results. w/ a limited budget - easiest way is to work off the rear springs final ride height. measure rears, then set front ride height to the desired spec.
don't forget to realign front when you are done - since this sounds like a mostly street car, probably smartest bet is to set camber to negative end of the alfa spec for your car. will give good results. of course, can go more negative - more negative you go, better handling and cornering, but soon you cross into severe tire eating mode - which for most guys, just plain does not make sense on a street car.
fwiw, 27mm torsion bars are stiffer than grant indicates and the rear springs are softer.
imho, wheel rate is the only way to measure this stuff. that is a measure of the force required to raise the wheel an inch. on a specific chassis, wheel rate is wheel rate - takes spring location/angle out of the equation and gives the net result.
short bars (milano & late GTV6) have a wheel rate of ~ 294#/inch. long bars (alfetta & GTV6 to mid '85) are ~ 274#/inch.
the SS rear springs are ~ 140#/inch.
imho, there is absolutely no tangible benefit to spending the huge $ required for an RSR suspension.
if money is a consideration for you - buy JJs used 27s, throw them in and enjoy your car.
in my experiences, you do need a stiffer shock to adequately control the heavier springs - but if need be, you can get by w/ stock units until you can afford more.
as to F/R ride height - best way to set is to corner weight the car. if that is not easily accessible for you, good rule of thumb is to set rear 1/2" - 1" higher than front (measuring to the bottom of the jack points, if you still have them, is very convenient). will be close enough to give satisfactory results. w/ a limited budget - easiest way is to work off the rear springs final ride height. measure rears, then set front ride height to the desired spec.
don't forget to realign front when you are done - since this sounds like a mostly street car, probably smartest bet is to set camber to negative end of the alfa spec for your car. will give good results. of course, can go more negative - more negative you go, better handling and cornering, but soon you cross into severe tire eating mode - which for most guys, just plain does not make sense on a street car.
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243 Posts
spring specs
hi grant, i got mine from the torsion bar makers.
gave him control arm dimensions and had him compute wheel rate for long and short bars in diameters of 27, 30, 33, 36.
asked coil spring maker what the rates are. if i get a chance will measure rears to confirm, but assume he knows what he is talking about.
andy
hi grant, i got mine from the torsion bar makers.
gave him control arm dimensions and had him compute wheel rate for long and short bars in diameters of 27, 30, 33, 36.
asked coil spring maker what the rates are. if i get a chance will measure rears to confirm, but assume he knows what he is talking about.
andy
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