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Discussion Starter #1
Hi All,

I was working on the ABS pump last week because I noticed that the pump was leaking fluid out the high pressure line. I took it apart and noticed the O ring went bad.

DO NOT DRINK KETEL ONE AND WORK ON YOUR CAR!

I had a nice vodka tonic. I managed to strip out the thread on the banjo bolt on the abs pump.

So I was wondering, If I put in a helicoil will it hold without leaking? Does anyone have a source in the Bay Area where I could buy one?

My pump is borderline so I probably will buy a Buick Reatta pump. I was looking for something to get the car going.

The car is trying to get even with me because I talked about the M3 in several posts.

Also, does anyone have a passenger side rear abs sensor in workable condition they would be willing to part for some $$$ or good alcohol?
 

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Louis heres a tip for you -
Performance mod remove the ABS !
RS racing special? all the racers remove ABS.
 

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Louis, I may have a rear sensor you can have.

I'd also just go ahead and buy a new Reatta pump, and a new accumulator. That banjo fitting holds a lot of pressure so it'll leak if you tried to helicoil it.

Don't listen to these nay sayers. If ABS were really that bad, manufacturers would have stopped putting them into cars by now. I can't tell how many times I've had to actually use my ABS, both on and off the track. It's no voodoo gizmo and won't defy the laws of physics but it'll certainly help when you're least expecting it to.

But, you already knew that :)
 

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Two options...buy the Regatta pump (I did that previously...its cheap, and works) or remove the ABS...I always ended up (ok, not always, just the last two times) going with removing the ABS system...but then I'm not a super racer like Nizam, so I didn't need the ABS ;) :D Of course, do the thing that makes sense for you, and that is whatever will make the car stop when needed...
 

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Ted's exaggerating. I'm no super-racer (that's Anthony's brother!)

I'm a girlieman. I like ABS. I like LSD. I LOVE Power Steering (the Milano/75's is weighed very nicely). I like Air-conditioning, and I even like power windows. In fact, if I could have DSG I'd put it in my Milano ... I'm so girly I ditched my steel floorjacks for aluminium ones!

If only I was more manly I'd chuck out all the above so I can experience my Milano like Ted does ;) ... raw.

p/s Ted - with all the junked ABS parts you must have accumulated, how about donating them to Louis?
 

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Hi Universible:

I was searching some old posts for the "Buick Reatta" ABS system to replace the Milano's. I found a post where you mentioned the Alfa Owner had an article on this. Did you ever get this scanned? If so, would you be able to post this? I was going to go this route to fix my ABS pump.

Thanks
AlfaBeta

Posting:
Chip,

After posting this to the Digest as well, I've narrowed it down to what you said, bad ABS pump or Accumulator...and yes, the fluid is most likely running down the hose, and not actually leaking from it.

I guess the Alfa Owner just had an article on replacing the Milano ABS with the parts of a Buick Reatta...someone is going to get me a scan of the article (don't get the Alfa Owner).

I'm on the fence about replacing the system. Now that I have a better idea of what's wrong, I am going to get it to my mechanic and see what he recommends (short of me shoving the car where the sun don't shine..., he's funny that way, still probably mad about the Alfetta AC incident of 2 weeks ago HAHAHA).
 

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I ended up ordering the Alfa Owner issue...but can't find it for the life of me...its on their site, in the archives. If I can dig it up I'll post the info...but I do believe I did another post with the parts numbers for gmpartsdirect.com That's all you really need. You'll need the Pump and Accumulator...then you'll have to modify the pump to work. When I did it, the only mod I had to do to the pump was unscrew the two halves and rotate one 180 degrees...you'll see what I mean if/when you get the pump, its the same pump as the Alfa one, but I guess it fits differently on the Buick, so they have one part turned. If I remember right, it has something to do with one of the connectors.

All in all, well worth the $300, if you want to keep the ABS. After all, its getting pretty difficult to even find parts to do a non-ABS swap...took me a number of months to track almost everything down on my last one. I had to have the hard brake lines customized for me by a shop, because I couldn't source the proper ones (don't stretch the ABS ones to fit! find someone to make a cuppling, and then just use a small piece of hard line that you bend yourself, to reach the non-ABS stuff).

Ted
 

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I ended up digging through some old email archives to find my emails about the ABS issue with various folks on the digest. Peter Webb is by the far the most knowledgeable on this subject (isn't he on the BB?). Also, I think the Alfa Owner article on the ABS parts is from July 2003.

Here are some emails and Digest posts I found:

Date: Wed, 19 Nov 2003 15:57:03 -0600
> From: "Frank P.Filice" <[email protected]>
> Subject: [alfa] Re: Milano ABS
>
> Ted / All
>
> I too have been having problems with the ABS system on my 88
> Verde. Recently, I went ahead and ordered the GM/Buick Reatta rebuilt ABS
> pump. I ordered part #12-4407 from BBAutoParts.com. These pumps are
> rebuilt by CARDONE in Philadelphia, PA and come with a 1 year
> warranty. There are 2 different versions of this pump; one with a rigid
> line connection for the fluid from the reservoir and one with a connection
> for a hose (like the one the Milano uses).
>
> As far as fit goes - I have not installed it yet but it looks like the
> mounting bracket will work as will the 12 v connector. The connector for
> the pressure switch is completely different and you will have to transfer
> the switch from your Milano pump to the replacement.
>
> FYI, the rebuilt pump that I got came with an accumulator - however there
> is no way of knowing its' condition.
>
> On replacement procedure, There was a service bulletin issued by AR with
> some instruction on ABS pump replacement and the need to properly prime
the
> pump with brake fluid prior to install. I believe that this service
> bulletin is available on one of the Alfa websites. If you can't find it,
> I'll send you a copy of what I found.
>
> Look at http://phantom.urbis.net.il/alfa75/ and
> http://alfa.denovich.org/Alfa/AlfaRomeoMilano for lots of great info on
> 75/Milano tech procedures.
>
> I have been trying to trace down the source of my problems - yellow/orange
> ABS light on most of the time and the ARC red brake light error flashes
> once in a while. My brakes seem to work fine but no ABS action when the
> light is on.
> To troubleshoot my system; I have measured the gap between the pickup
> sensors and wheel ring, checked continuity and insulation on the sensor
> wires, and checked the AC output of the rear sensors with the rear wheels
> rotating. So far everything checks out OK.
>
> My next step is to try a local shop that may have the equipment that can
> plug in to the ABS cpu and decipher the error codes.
>
> Good Luck
> Frank
Date: Thu, 28 Aug 2003 08:22:27 -0400
From: "Spencer, Graham" <[email protected]>
Subject: RE: verde abs

Ok, here is the information on the Verde ABS parts:

The book this was referenced from (from the article) was: 'Brake Systems OEM
& Racing Brake Technology' by Mike Mavrigian and Larry Carly

In the article it says that the cars that share the Milano ABS ATE MII
system are 'mostly 88-89 GM products'. The part numbers given are:
Accumulator: AC Delco 255 35686
ABS Pump: AC Delco 255 28382

Both are from a Buick Reatta. Pump is similar, but requires the use of a few
existing fittings and the existing pressure switch.

HTH,
Graham

Date: Fri, 28 Nov 2003 12:37:22 -0600
From: "Peter Webb" <[email protected]>
Subject: RE: [alfa] 87 Milano ABS Pump & Accumulator Update

The GM part new from www.gmpartsdirect.com is $323 for the Reatta. Part
#25535686

- -Peter
So, my $300 estimate was a little low...all I remember was this it was much less than the same parts from Alfa.

Date: Wed, 01 Oct 2003 11:51:16 -0500
From: "Bill MacFarland" <[email protected]>
Subject: [alfa] Milano ABS GM part numbers

Hey everyone, with the recent discussion about buying Milano ABS pumps
from GM dealers, I bought a Buick Reatta parts number list off of eBay.
Here is what I found:

1. ABS Sensor - Front (88-89) 1648453, (90) 3521271
2. ABS Sensor  Rear 1646478
3. ABS Master Cylinder 25535706
4. ABS Control Relay (88) 12034544, (89-90) 12129073
5. ABS Harness 12076612
6. ABS Brake Module (88-89) 1640037, (90) 1649945
7. ABS Module Bracket 20653366

Sorry, I tried to find the equivalent part numbers for Christmas tree
display but apparently the Reatta didnt come with that excellent
feature.

I have the part numbers for 91 Reattas, but the diagrams look different
than the 88-90 diagrams and I assume they changed ABS systems.

I have to admit, I didnt compare the part numbers above with those in
Alfa Owner article or recent Alfa-Digest postings. I hope this is helpful
to other Milanisti out there. As others have success in acquiring these
ABS parts from GM and converting them (where necessary) to use on our
cars, please share your knowledge on the digest.

Anybody want to buy a Reatta parts list?

Thanks,
Bill in MD
88 3.0 Milano  hopefully engine goes back in this weekend
77 Fiat Spider  no ABS here
01 Audi S4 Avant
- --
Bill MacFarland
[email protected]
Hope that helps...jump on www.gmpartsdirect.com (geeze, I should be getting referral money!) and look up the parts numbers.

Ted
 

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Discussion Starter #11
Hi All,

The pump price is now $347.14. The jerks want $69.43 to ship the pump. Would they just sell the pump for $400.

If you want the accumulator too, they charge $92.72 and another $18.54 for shipping. Nice people! :D
 

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I can't tell, are you being sarcastic? I'm guessing the Alfa pump is still over $1000 right? So for half that you get the pump and accumulator...not bad. Shop around, they might have seen a rise in sales since all the talk a couple years ago, started raising prices or something...
 

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Discussion Starter #13
No I'm not being sarcastic, but I hate businesses who overcharge in shipping to make it look like they are the cheapest on a part. It's like on ebay were you win an item for $1, but they want $200 to cover shipping and handling.

I'm telling you $25 shipping and handling for the pump would be pushing it. I ship European model trains all over the world, so I know shipping costs. If the pump came out of Germany, than maybe $70.

Yes, I know that $500 bones is an ok deal on a rebuilt pump and accumulator. I just wonder about any business that charges such unreasonable shipping.

This is almost as bad as when you go to see furniture in a designer showroom. The prices they show do not include shipping from the wherehouse in NY to SF. Than you have to arrange delivery to your residence. Too bad most Cassina furniture at the Limm Gallery costs more than our Milanos are worth.

Dammit, I'm cheap and an Alfisti. Sorry to be redundant. Sarcastic enough!?!
 

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Hi All,

Thanks a ton for all the info (especially you Universible!) I was able to find the accumulator at a nearby GM dealer, the part number they had was 25528382. The pump is # 25535686 but they didn't have it in stock. I may just start with the accumulator swap to see if this is enough to get it running again (the pump works but I'm not sure how "good" it is). The accumulator didn't come with the o ring seal that the workshop manual diagram shows so hopefully the old one is ok.

thanks again

AlfaBeta
 
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