[zoli]

Where to start.. Long time reader and first time posting.. First I wanted to thank you all for your wonderful contributions. I know I for one have searched this forum countless times over the last 20 years or more.

Question: Although I have not dismantled the car completely, I am looking for the cross members for my car. I know many have recommended Lamierati stampati per auto d'epoca - alfa romeo, lancia, fiat, autobianchi and I have talked to them a few times and they don't do shipping. So has anyone used a shipping company for metal repair panels from Italy to the US? I have tried a few companies like DHL and have not had much luck. Also if anyone has other suppliers they would recommend for the cross members I certainly would be interested. Thank you

Back Story:
So I bought a 63 Giulia Spider in the late 90s and decided now is the time to start the restoration. I couldn't afford much back then but always loved the Alfa spiders, especially the Giulia's and 2600 (which I couldn't afford) . I have owned other Alfas and my family has owned many classic cars including Lancia, Jaguars, Ferraris and more. I grew up with my father rebuilding a transaxle out of a 365 on the kitchen table for over a year. So I guess it is in my blood. I have restored many boats, cars not so much but I feel up for the challenge. My car is pretty rough metal wise and many of the cross members have been previously repaired, crudely I may add, so these will need to be redone. The floor boards also will need redoing as well as a little work in the trunk.
I plan on doing most of the work myself, like many of you. I realize there are an incredible amount of forum posts detailing much of the work I am undergoing, and I have read many of these, so if I ask a question that has been previously answered I am sorry. Please feel free to direct me to another post.

Got the engine running this past weekend after not run in over 20 years. The engine had low compression before running which I expected but after running it for a while it had 150 psi on all cylinders except number 2 which had 130. I will rebuild the engine anyway because there are leaks in the oil pan gasket and a weeping head gasket and I think it is probably smart after sitting for that long. (if any one has engine rebuild manuals or resources that they can direct me to I would be very appreciative) The exhaust is not existent and the original exhaust manifold flange was cracked so I just temporarily attached them after inserting new studs. Rebuilt the Fispa fuel pump with a rebuild kit from Then and Now. Thanks to alfa32 and his post on the fuel pump rebuild. Rebuilt the Bosch distributor vju4 br41 and then rigged a temporary fuel line into a gas tank in the passenger seat. I thought it would be nice to drive it around the circle in my driveway before starting to tear it down for restoration. I accidently pressed the brake, its been so long since I drove a stick. Big mistake, probably aided to locking up the drums. The clutch was reluctant to return so had to pull it back with my foot. The front passenger wheel drum brakes were frozen so I thought it would free up if I drove it a little.. That didn't work. I got about 15 feet out of the garage and that is where it stopped. The brakes were just too locked up and I didn't want to hurt anything by horsing on an old motor. I was able to use the car disc manuals I got from Leo in 1989 to look at releasing the frozen brake shoes. I was able to clean out the garage where the car sat for last 20 years . While doing this I noticed smoke billowing from the car. I opened the hood and found the carb on fire. I had a a fire extinguisher near by and quickly gave it a squirt. Luckily I didn't hurt anything other than some old paint on the hood. It was getting late so blew out the engine compartment dust with compressed air and I freed up the stuck drum brake and pushed it back into the garage with my son and wife before it started to rain.. It was kind of how I thought it would go and even the neighbor asked if everything was alright as I was putting out the flames. I put it back in the garage and started it up again just to make sure I didn't hurt anything. It started right up.. Trust me I was thinking of going for a night run around the driveway circle!

Some pictures of the car, under carriage and cross members. I will take better pictures when I get it on a rotisserie. I appreciate any and all help and thanks for taking the time to read and comment.

This is the better of the two sides.

poorly repaired cross member

Previously cut cross member when repairing floor boards. Then they firberglassed over the floors boards. probably to keep water out.

rotting support.

 

[AlfistiSA]

Welcome to the asylum Zoli, you are in good company here..... very few folks here are professionals, most of us are willing enthusiasts. The good news is that many replacement parts are available today, our own member Lionel Velez at Auto Italia Sportiva makes many reproduction parts in the USA - Our parts catalogue just keep growing.

Many of the parts can be self fabricated with some basic hand tools, although access to a small bending brake & a press does help. CAD or Cardboard Aided Design using an old Kelloggs box will let you fabricate much of what's missing & your welding skills will improve along the way.

A '63 will have the 3 shoe front drums - I'll send you a private message with all the 3 shoe information

Ciao
Greig

 

[zoli]

Thanks Greig, I appreciate the response. I will check out Lionel's site. I heard his wiring harnesses are great. I have yet to find this cross member other than in Italy.

 

[rjalfa]

Hi Zoli;

The above crossmember is available from Biondi Lamierati

Traversa abitacolo (interna) 4 fori - Lamierati stampati per auto d'epoca - alfa romeo, lancia, fiat, autobianchi

Biondi Giancarlo da ormai 20 anni ha iniziato la produzione di pezzi particolari per auto d'epoca confidando nella propria esperienza derivante dall'attività di carrozzeria che permette di conoscere a fondo le problematiche dell'assemblaggio delle vetture. In particolare produciamo lamierati...

www.biondilamierati.com

I successfully got parts from Biondi in 2015 (I'm in CA), you need to set up a FedEx business account, then you can arrange for FedEx to pick up (which DHL will not do)
We are currently helping another BB'er (hi Art ) with getting some parts from them.

Regards, RJ

 

[ITALCAROZ]

Hi Zoli ( is that correct)

Reach out to OMWattsy here as he is rebuilding the entire bottom of is 1600 veloce and has bought panels from biondi and others , with mixed success. he has fitted the crossmembers you are speaking off plus the sills and floors and had issues with fitment

cheers Ian

 

[OMWattsy]

Hi Zoli,
As ItalcarOz said, I purchased a number of panels from Biondi. I have attached a pic of panels. (As an aside, I don't speak italian so I used an interpreter to make sure Cristian and i were always on the same page. This made things happen without a hitch.)

I used Savino Del Bene to ship the panels to Oz. They where less than half the quote from DHL. I have no idea whether they service the States.

From Biondi I purchased the rear and centre cross stiffeners, the rear cabin floor and the drivers side rear wing.
The shape of the rear and centre cross stiffeners is quite complex and would be hard to fabricate by hand except by welding smaller pieces together to build up the full member.

With reference to fabricating these members, I have so many small repairs to fabricate that can't be sourced that I figured that the purchase price of these larger items was cheaper than the time it would have taken me to do the fabrication.

The rear stiffener in post #3 is actually the front of a double member. This (front) rear stiffener is spot welded directly to the vertical face of the sills. With this stiffener, the floor sits on the lower (lip) flange for the central length of the stiffener, however the part of the floor 250mm closest to the sills needs to be flanged and this flange is spot welded to the inclined face of the stiffener.

In the case of the stiffener I purchased from Biondi, the floor sits on the lip for the full length of the Biondi stiffener. However an extension needs to be fabricated to close in the gap to the sill. Makes it easy to sit the floor onto a lip but but creates a huge opening for shyte to flow into the void between the two members. Puzzling why they allow the detailing to be incomplete.
The attached pix show the extension during fabrication plus shows where it is when the lower sills are in place.

I had already purchased the floors, boot, sill kit and the front cross stiffener from Classic Alfa as they are easy to do business with and will arrange shipping.

I only have experience with the Biondi and Classic Alfa panels. But my experience confirms what can be read elsewhere on this and other forums that most of the panels that you buy are never quite right and most need some fettling to get them to fit. (I believe Lionel's are a good fit however he doesn't sell all of the panels you will need).

I trust what I've said makes sense. If you have any other questions, pls ask.

Cheers and keep safe, Mick

 

[zoli]

Thanks RJ, Ian and Mick this is incredibly helpful. RJ I didn't even think of utilizing a FedEx business account, thanks that makes sense! Mick your information, description and pictures are incredibly helpful. I was thinking the same idea with purchasing some of the parts from Classic Alfa and some from Biondi. I would happily use Lionel's but didn't see much on his site for what I needed. After the car is stripped that may change. Mick did you chemically dip your car? What stripping method did you use? My car like yours needs a lot of little patches and many have been done crudely by the previous owner. Replacing larger panels although maybe more difficult certainly looks better in the long run in my opinion. Similarly like your car (which I read in other posts) probably kept it from the crusher. I was thinking of buying or building a rotisserie but may build a stand first to keep the structural rigidity of the car to replace the cross members. Your thoughts?
I appreciate all of your responses they are extremely helpful.
Sincerely,
Michael Zoli (most just call me Zoli)

 

[OMWattsy]

Hi Zoli,

I would never recommend having a car dipped again unless the firm doing the dipping can clearly demonstrate that they can 100% neutralise the car after the dip. If I was going down that path, I would also consider having the body electroplated after the dip.

Unfortunately a major player in acid dipping in Sydney, Australia has given the product a bad name. I had a 70’s Lancia dipped and it was meant to be neutralised. I found all box sections were starting to rust up again shortly after, even what would have otherwise been good, clean steel. But the scariest aspect was that rust was leaching out of simple spot welded seams. These seams were not hidden and both sides of the seam where easily accessible to the neutralizing agents. I no long have the car but I kept a part of the body were the rust has leaching out of the seams as a reminder and I show it to ppl who want to know about dipping.

I have also seen a similar outcome with a car striped using caustic soda.

In both cases, the damage was caused by not applying all steps in the process.

For my spider, I removed the doors, bonnet, boot and the front bodywork and had the car media blasted. I specified that the rear body work, engine bay, firewall and rear bulkhead where only to be blasted using light pressure. Costed more but I don’t have any warped good panels except the two door sills (I forgot to put those on my list..sigh!).

The parts that I removed have been stripped using paint stripper and phosphoric acid (applied with a paint brush and rusty areas scrubbed with scourer pads and wire brushes), then primed. Takes longer but there is minimal risk of secondary damage.

With regard to supporting my car, I knew I had to remove all sills and floors. So I made a stiff frame to hold the remaining parts of the car in position plus I welded in some bracing in the cabin between the front and rear of the car. I also fabricate two outriggers out of discarded trampoline frame that allows me to roll the car, still attached to the frame, on its side. I took the attached photo today. Drivers side floor is in so we decided to clean up some welds on the underside of the drivers floor plus finishing repairs to the A pillar.

When the car is welded back together, I’m going to put it on a smaller cart so it’s easier to move around, roll over and be rolled into a 6 x 4 trailer to take it to be painted etc. Gordon Raymond has the design of the cart on his site.

Hope that helps, Mick

 

[zoli]

Hi Mick,
This is very valuable information and your pictures are incredible helpful. Great Work! I appreciate you posting them. I think showing how the overlapping cross members are done is extremely helpful . The details of how the sill is attached are also great and super helpful. My sills were done by a previous owner so I am guessing I will have to replace those as well and the A pillars on my car are pretty botched. Please keep the photos coming it is very helpful and I am sure others will find it helpful as well.

I will take a look at Gordon Raymond's site for the cart.

As for stripping the car I think I will do it by hand with paint stripper and then follow up with the phosphoric acid per your suggestion. I think it is the safest approach.
Thanks again for all of the valuable information!
Zoli